Sorry for the long reply time I don’t always have frequent access time with the internet as I mainly work when I visit a library, though I can also be using, when I get spare time (which is currently not too often), a non-internet connected computer running an old version of josm.

Yes I seem to have been getting various upload problems since September. I think I thought it had to do with new use of Relationships from online editors. So I mentioned it on the diary and someone looked onto it for me and found no records about it in the logs. I changed how demanding my use had been for setting up relationships as I been attempting to create totally new node & way sets with new nesting relationships which seemed to be able to get the uploader tied up trying to hold so many links to checks to things that didn’t exist yet on osm (a merge process maybe). I worked into short groups of upload new ways before a separate changeset to make each relationship one by one. This seemed to work ok with the occasional hiccup. More recently I did get a browser struggling to keep up with processing a large up date of about a 130-odd new things made in id-editor and handling sort routines for looking up new entry options. As it was still busy when it tried to save it made the nodes have messed up co-ordinates, I ran out of access time before I could fix them all. The latest on was a bit of a mystery as I did edit in chrome/id on one machine changed to another with similar set up and the OSM server faulted with a error page after 20 min twice. before I had to abandon the session.

So I general I am getting quite used to it not always being a 100% reliable for uploading edit sessions.

This is a useful reminder of how diversely OSM data is used I try to include ele a bit more when I have a good source for it.

bugun to refix but isn’t finished yet a shame so much lost.

the evolving to version 2 (http://www.ai.sri.com/geovrml/2.0/)

re rereading i ment to type;- ..before. So that they don’t just become defacto standard, afterthoughts

Although the i button in id is now working to solve the problem as a novice working on potlatch I found trying to find info on advance tags quite long-winded (its improving and experience helps it make more sense too) and didn’t learn what a relation was for months till someone commented on a diary entry! ġhaveing taken a while to explore that part rather than just editing..

it would have been nice to have in the editor a direct feed to place that takes new proposed tags; from the place you are about to add a new one especially if the editor doesn’t recognise it. Smart editors could remember your new tags along with approval status and allow the interface to grow to help needs…

as a programmer that prefers machine code programming to either assembly or other higher programming language simply because you can’t get syntax errors from bad grammar I prefer documented abbreviations that I can understand the key is getting the documentation made at the point you try expand the schema or before so that they become de-facto after thoughts. In the same vain also felt uncomfortable defining times on parking tags in English when a agreed number sequence would do like Gregorian months in Chinese are.

I think things are likely to improve, rather than worsen; as editor support, for this side of mapmaking, improves too.

fixed it. I also found site in the list too. I found it very easy to edit with the relationships in id now so I’m very happy selecting large dispersed logical blocks to amend tags too. and visualise the relationships. Now I just have to finish the city for it all to make more sense. Thanks again Pieren.

Thankyou fo that advice I chose from the list in id without a full background check I think the ist was smaller than allwed tags nd it’s the first time I managed to really make it all work. So I’ll swap them over now.

I should probly hunt down different loacal s/w to speed it up the conversions when not by the internet.

All my data is for accurate possitioning is based on referances to standard points registered in the British National Grid. Trying to improve it with pre-GPS techniques and a nominal series of BM’s some x-refs. I hope when the time is sufficient to do it out with sights and protractors. The National Grid is easier to work with in this method; as right angles in the UK by design fit well with the Geoid used with the grid allowing me to form a plan with normal angles (and Metric distances). The Grid uses continiously changeing false or Grid Norths that all lie paralel so it self-compensates when lieing as a grid. Internationaly the Uk version’s Geiod begins to distort things far from the intended work area like in south america or south africa. So other local grids made using similar ideas were made and used by the same mapping agencys when working overseas. Rather than just copy there work I hope to increase the genral accuracy (oftern +/-1m horiz and vert) to give a more realistic zoom view on osm’s drived works such as addeding balconey’s and protuding extensions often missed on standards originaly developed for artillary and tank use before re-use for civil-engineering. These features are hoped to make more sence to walkers orinintating themselves, etc.

When I make edits I hope to be correcting or adding to things from more knowledge usally in very small sesions though I am very aware that accurate geographic alignment of meny of my new lines and points is only as a close guess with the imagary behind (often bing), even when adding feature not readably visabile in the base pictures so if someone wanted to pull them into a better alignment with reality I’d be happy. I think that sometimes the tools like potlatch etc can be a little simplistic for working with previous efforts which isn’t a total critisium as they are often easier to use. Though it is worth knowing this when you don’t really know if someone has already spent a huge amount of effort with gps and other servay tools to align something accuratly or simply guessed it loosly or imported from a low resurlution source.

I think that stratigicly, as the map in places does become matured with a lot of acurate data in places, this is something that the main organisers will need to consider more to avoid looseing things already done or done more accuratly but with need for minor edits or just tag data updates.

I thinkk the way that OSM already records lots of change history is a useful aid to help begin making some tools or sub-apptools to address this type of co-ordination issues.

I know if I’d taken a data via a point-field with a calibrated lidar I’d be upset if someone just re-aligned it to the mistakes in a base image.

I think it is only released on the public site if it ok to publish it for public use.

It seems mainly aimed towards potential customers usally new frieght planners as well as people thinking of doing rail tours.

There are additional publications for customer planning at:- http://www.networkrail.co.uk/Network_Specifications.aspx

There dosn’t seem to be a copywrite restriction but aknowledgeing Network Rail (publicly published documents) as a source would be polite at minimum. They are genraly part of released infomation. Commercial use claiming to own OSM data with it in and then creating problems for the rail industry is not likely to go down well but I think our licence already forbids that time of behaviour already.

OSM dosn’t havest the data directly so it isn’t quite the same as useing traditional mapping data either.

They are more worried about teh genral reliability of the Electronic version (rather than the pdf) when used for operational use. Its more a case of it being more important to make it accurate than secret.

Meny of the codes inside has appeared in other public documents including ealier additions of NESA. The main numbering looks like it is in use between 1939 and 1950’s nationalisation. The gaps in the numbers indicate the lost lines that went in various decades with a lot going at the begining of the 2nd half of the 20th centrury. I think this because the smaller companies have been already absorbed though this isn’t fullproof as they could been amended at any time up to the current form before the end of the mid 1960’s and the loss of major regioning in 1969.

http://euroroutes.zkir.ru/ using the above link I tried to edit what looked to be missing but font that the int_ref tags were set I think the render is being pushed and some major miss alingment ints in junctions at large scales (small coverage) suggests that the data can be simpified before relaying over a osm raster tile.

I think the data is probably ok if any see a mistake let me know.

Did we find an answer on what Data.gov.uk linked geo data we can use [and what we have yet to include to osm]?

Are we allowed to use LLPG data like UPRN, UARN & USRN that is collected in the “wild” like on labels and council website database interfaces?

I do intend to write a longer history of what they are but I need to close my session now. Thank you for the caution.

:> I’ve now spoted the gaps. I left by mistake. It was done in parts and I could see the progress with out anlysing each road segment’s tab data in potlatch mainly.

When I’m on a single user computer with the flash suport I’ll get that fixed. I’m looking forward to the Html5 editor. This multi-user unix i’m using today is briefed to support text catalog enquies so dumps sessions that get to taxing.

-Thank you all for your helpful advice

I had another look at the wiki page and did find the map render link. True it dose take a while when working in realtime.

I also think now there is merit in the referanceing system when makeing a big map as it saves parseing all the ways to find the int_ref’s. Though on small maps the the the other case still stands I guess render usally can pre-process the osm to a form for its perpose so it can make any aditional data linking tables if it wants to.

Thank you SK53 I’ve just been able to lookup and see the details of your referances. I think you are right that most at least on that route seems to have been done via the relation method. I thought that a published map with data from AND BV. showed the E05 curving east onto the M27 next to southhampton, to go on to the docks in the district of Gosport (serves the same bay as southhampton). Thats were my changes were made so far to each way on that route up to the M3.

I think from a database point-of-view referances and grouping stuctures make a lot of sence as the reduce repertion in the data and can be edited possibly faster with some interfaces. Though from a render’s point of view, there might be a lot of pre-linking work needed to find which relations I need to take account of when only rendering a small part of the world. I have no idea if it happens but it may be that some render engines skip meny referances and adopt a simpler less detailed render specification? I was wondering as I’m yet to have been lucky enough to find main maps showing the E numbering system. That and the lack of some the int_ref numbers blank, originaly made me think wrongly that they hadn’t been done yet maybe.

I think for me the anotations to Gosport I made and the lot of work of others on finishing this route seems good enough for me in terms of editing adding int_ref’s programaticly or useing advanced text manipulations on the baulk data of the database seems far quick than the tools I’ve used so far.

I am looking at useing the techniques you’ve shown me to finish the Rail numbering scheme at some point

I’ll be looking into these. problem is I don’t often own the computer I use to connect so new s/w needs some thinking though to be installed.

I did see some but I think Idid this work when I was new to potlatch so was feeling a little limited in simple mode. I’ve gained mre experance since then.

Thank you both.

I took a look at your suggestion to redo Newbury’s parkway conversion from backyards to a semi-open shopping centre. There is a website linked via the councils parking pages. That gives a lot of detail into the facilities and and shopping layout including360degree photographs.

It made me think about how to define parking and the work of others. The UK state rules are able to define very precisely with lots of parameters. The signs can be very wordy with multiple statements.

I think the easiest way forward is to define each independent clause as a equation in a string of them. if a common agreed format is used for all the parameters they should be at least partially machine comprehendable.

The parameters in each clause are:-

Type of vehicles - there is a long list of types definable including things like horse drawn vehicles (different to ridden horses or the category for wild horses), bikes, cattle, amphibians (animal), tractors, rickshaws, tanks & military vehicles, and tractors etc. Owner of Vehicle groups - “Railway Vehicles”, police {large companies and categories} Purpose - “access only”, taxi, local bus, Private hire, etc Generic groups-“local residents”, “shoppers only” {loose terms not highly defined} Local Generic groups -like local residency schemes, or amenity users {specified locally or refer directly to something close by.} Specific groups - defined just at that site Disabled and family categories - these are mix of sites for badged and unbadged users with special needs like space for wheelchair lifts, prams, crates etc..

type of stay - stopping, waiting, parking, loading, etc [note provide for subgroups like unload or load only etc] this could be expanded later for combinations of activity though clauses can work complementary to each other maybe?

Time

I am running low on time as write this so I may need to continue this later…

Start of period End of period length of stay Penalty period time not allowed to return again

times need to defined with:-

Dates Holidays events months days of the week year

\combine with\ am or pm day or night lighting up time -official registering it is getting dark [obviously varies during the year}

time in years,months,days,hours, minutes and seconds - both as time in the day and for durations. {other time measurements when applicable}

some sites get complex with a lot of clauses. while other just use a loose term like “access only”, “residents only’ -often as a get out exception to a rule sign prohibiting thing as well as parking.