And “new farmland color - makes farmland less prominent” is here: https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/1701

The new pedestrian color you tried looks very close to landuse=residential.

Yes, this is “too close to highway=residential” variant, mentioned in previous entry (osm.org/user/Mateusz%20Konieczny/diary/35555 - “highway=pedestrian, highway=living_street” section)

Warning, this image is resized before displaying - http://i.imgur.com/Dz6EgV9.png is undistorted one.

The secondary road yellow fill looks somewhat extreme at the higher zooms

Lightness of fill now is increasing for less important roads. As result yellow for secondary roads is less aggressive.

I don’t think that’s a problem as long as you keep it bright enough and on the reddish side of blue - water color is quite greenish.

Added testing this to TODO.

you should probably make sure the visibility is strictly decreasing with decreasing highway size

I modified shield color selection - now it is also supported by color generation script, https://github.com/matkoniecz/openstreetmap-carto/blob/backup-of-new-road-style_on_08_09/scripts/generate_road_colors.py#L55 (selects colors in lch space and keeps differences in lightness, chroma and hue constant - it makes tweaking color far easier as one may change one parameter and regenerate colors).

At some zoomlevels trunk seems rather similar too primary, maybe it’s possible to move it slightly closer to motorway?

At which ones? It was not supposed to happen.

The secondary casing could perhaps slightly toned down, at least on z11.

For pedestrian/living_street, I still like the final example. Would it be possible to reduce the clash with landuse=industrial by adding a stronger, for example purple, outline?

The difference between regular casing and bridge casing might need some work

Added to TODO list.

I see tertiary is now white and wider - do you have some more examples of urban areas to show how that works?

Examples are generating, I will post them as a new diary entry.

In the same example, residential seems too thick on z15 - not sure if that’s a problem in other areas too?

This wide white roads are highway=tertiary.

I know, unfortunately it is going to be confusing for some time (new pale yellow highway=secondary is the worst one as it is really close to current highway=tertiary).

heath

It may be easier to change heath - especially as it was planned anyway ( https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/780 ).

I found way to do this and created https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/1733

It is not fixing collision with natural=wetland, wetland=bog/string_bog - but at least half of the problem would be gone.

I will slightly reduce railway weight on z7.

Comparison images (version at time of publishing this diary entry, slightly reduced weight, strongly reduced weight).

I am also thinking about reducing road weight at z7.

z7 http://imgur.com/a/e1nxk#0 (all images together) http://imgur.com/oSTUcZH http://imgur.com/ph6KTTA http://imgur.com/Yk7YAFW http://imgur.com/7wLLuI2 http://imgur.com/l67uJOt http://imgur.com/wPbbzdM http://imgur.com/waXn5DS http://imgur.com/9d2J1HR http://imgur.com/fJc5Sf3 http://imgur.com/y76lF7H http://imgur.com/sDhU3bl http://imgur.com/tsPwttf

z8 http://imgur.com/a/0kRDq#0 (album) http://imgur.com/Gzoebbn http://imgur.com/nLNmVvi http://imgur.com/I4KxJ4x http://imgur.com/iRrY7Uv http://imgur.com/N231TRg http://imgur.com/b310i3u http://imgur.com/NnfTYKi http://imgur.com/Hu684o2 http://imgur.com/cG8FCLT http://imgur.com/rgLOUNd http://imgur.com/ssWgKal http://imgur.com/f4BfTca

secondary shield color is fairly close to heath color

Thanks for noticing this! Now lets find secondary road through heath…

For pedestrian areas - you could try something slightly blueish

I am worried about collision with water. See osm.org/way/183484612#map=19/53.56759/20.98945 or osm.org/way/172671466#map=18/54.44740/18.57716 for nearly the worst case.

I dislike the suggested pedestrian style - it looks like a building. Take the carto css default pic how can you or anyone tell if it is pedestrian or a building for the far right.

I agree - current scheme for pedestrian/living street is illogical and this version has horrifically ugly pedestrian areas (current version has horrifically ugly living_street areas, but this is a rare feature).

It needs to be lightened up a bit IMHO.

Unfortunately once it i lightened that it looks OK it is too close to landuse=residential. I will try once more - maybe I will find something that is merely ugly and not to close to this landuse.

Personally i think living streets should be more like residential roads. I am not sure why you think the are like pedestrian walkways.

As mentioned - living_street are something between highway=residential and highway=living_street. In some places closer to highway=pedestrian in some to highway=residential (depends on national laws, location and other factors).

Actually I would like some pattern paving for pedestrian ways a map image a bit like (only time for a quick Google) http://www.kspaving.co.uk/graphics/KSPavingLogo.gif

I am dubious whatever patterns will work.

I find the highway shields to be overly prominent in the new style

New shields:

sightly lighten the railways

@imagico - I am now checking how z7, z8 will look like with subtler railways.

Did these screenshots incorporate the railroad service changes shown later?

Yes, but I am using outdated data.

As mentioned - “missing data that is causing poor rendering of railways in Antwerp is now fixed”

I am using https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2015-July/028625.html for global rendering that is based on the planet dump from 150202.

I find the highway shields to be overly prominent in the new style

Yes, shields may be toned down (added to TODO list).

When can we expect to see the new style implemented on the main map?

Part is already used on osm website (minor rail and minor roads mid-zoom levels), part is ready and waits for merging and part will be ready for final testing within days.

In many places it is just not clear what should be mapped as landuse=residential because it is not obvious on the ground.

I think that overall consensus is that mapping landuse=residential makes sense. It is possible to improve wiki, but this probably should be discussed on wiki or tagging mailing list.

On the other hand the residential streets clearly exist on the ground an therefore should be rendered even at z12!

In the end highway=residential roads are visible on z12, but thinner than before.

I’m really not convinced that comparing with Google Maps is helpful.

I am not trying to turn default style in clone of Google Maps. I used this comparison because for cities around z10 Google Maps style works better than other.

I would not use GMaps as good example of handling places where its results are not better than OSM, like more remote areas.

In Google’s world bright orange makes sense, since thery’re showing relatively few classes of features, and a largely four-colour map makes sense.

Google is keeping its base map in limited color range as it allows to nicely place additional data on it (overlays, search results, ads etc). Humanitarian is also designed to make easy to add overlays.

Default OSM map is not doing something like that - but as there is massive amount of other features (see https://github.com/matkoniecz/CartoCSSHelper/blob/master/lib/cartocss_helper/style_specific/default_osm_style.rb for list of displayed tags), most of them displayed in unique style I think that it is also better to not use highly varied colors for one feature. Roads are currently using blue, green, red, orange, yellow, white, gray, dark gray and brown what I think may be limited without hurting readability and usability.

However the bigger problem is that the OSM Standard Style tries to be both “a nice map” and “part of the mapper feedback loop” - given the level of detail that’s being mapped in some places now I don’t see how it can do both.

Yes, in many cases these goals are opposed. But selecting information that should be displayed is always necessary. Even JOSM is not rendering all popular tags.

I guess that you’re limited by what would work technically as a style on osm.org now

Yes, but for now it was not really problematic.

Would transparent overlays be in or out on that basis?

Transparent overlays that may be added/removed like data layer and notes layer? That would require changed on OSM website and is not planned as part of GSoC.

Just a quick search.

Thanks!

That’s fine for them, but it’s not something we should seek to emulate.

It is not my intention to copy it, but in some areas (mid zoom levels in cities) it is clearly better.

I’d argue quite strongly that the Google maps style assumes people only use cars.

Yes, for example railways are nearly invisible. It is not something that I would want on Default OSM map.

I would love to bug test this style, are there any test servers?

At this moment - no. There are still many things that are known to be unfinished, untested or not working. Test server is planned, but it is still too early.

I would love to bug test, are there any test tile servers?

At this moment - no. There are still many things that are known to be unfinished, untested or not working. Test server is planned, but it is still too early.

They may be running through the natural=sand however (for example in some areas of Africa).

Can you maybe give an example where this happens? It is worth testing.

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/blogs/elegantfigures/2013/09/10/subtleties-of-color-part-6-of-6/

Thanks!

give up the idea of using the same color for high zoom casing and for low zoom fill

I am not considering it as important, in fact I already abandoned it. It was just the starting point.

try tweaking the farmland color

I am currently trying to do this.

beach

At least roads through beaches are rare.

For rail, I have liked the crosshatch-on-lines style used by USGS

From what I have seen at http://store.usgs.gov/b2c_usgs/usgs/maplocator/%28ctype=areaDetails&xcm=r3standardpitrex_prd&carea=%24ROOT&layout=6_1_61_48&uiarea=2%29/.do it is not better than even current rendering.

It has worse results at places with many railways and about the same otherwise.