RobJN's Comments
Post | When | Comment |
---|---|---|
GeoPaparazzi, a survey tool for OSM (too) | Interesting. Sounds similar to an app called Input which I’ve been meaning to test for some time. Perhaps I’ll compare both over the holiday break. Input app: https://www.lutraconsulting.co.uk/products/ |
|
Facebook: Hands Off Our Map | At best I do not see how this post is in anyway useful, at worst this comes across as a desperate attempt to cling on to something (power? Influence?) It would be good if board members remembered that OpenStreetMap is the project that creates and distributes free geographic data for the world. If you genuinely care about this aim then the new board members should do as much as they possibly can to guide as many people and and as many companies through the process of successfully contributing good quality data. That is the best way to achieve our aim of distributing free geographic data for the world. |
|
2019 OSMF board candidates – analysis and recommendations |
Indeed and in fact it is common for my views to differ significantly. I’ve not finished reading yet but can already tell that my ranking this year will again differ significantly to your personal view. But that’s the great thing about an election - we can all vote as we see fit without anyone pressuring us to vote a particular way. It’s for that reason that I’m not a particular fan of publishing my ranked list. I believe there is a lot of benefit of a secret ballot. |
|
iD editor: It is time for us to end this abusive relationship | Hi Frederik, Given that you linked to one of my emails, I felt it best to share some thoughts especially as I do not think you have identified the root cause of the issue. But first to address your request. Yes we can “stop using that “official” version of iD” however the issues you discuss are not limited to iD. I have experienced the same issues within numerous OpenStreetMap projects and there seems to be no link between whether they are run by volunteers or by corporate employees. In fact in one such volunteer example I stopped posting issues several years ago as it became clear that they also had very little interest in the UK specifics I was describing. There is another project (again community run) that I would think twice about posting an issue to given my observations of the way they treat others. So, yes we can “stop using that “official” version of iD” but if we do can we also stop using the “official” version of other OSM projects featured on, or linked to from openstreetmap.org? So what is the root cause? It could possibly be the core value of OpenSreetMap itself - “do-ocracy”. The problem with do-ocracy is that not everyone comes to OpenStreetMap with the same skill set. Most can do basic map edits but after that the number drops dramatically. Using iD as the example here, the number of members within the OpenStreetMap community who have the right skills to contribute to iD is very small. The same applies to the community run projects I have experienced issues with - the common feature is that most of the community are locked out of these projects because they do not possess the right skill set. The issue with a do-ocracy is that individuals are faced with two choice: (1) commit serious amounts of time to learn every the skills required to contribute to single element of OpenStreetMap, or (2) rely on the goodwill of others and hope that those others also share your point of view. In reverse order: the issue with (2) is that you will not always succeed. Individuals have their own approach (whether paid or by a company or contributing in their spare time). Sometimes they share the same my point of view, sometimes they don’t. Some are ok at reading the mood of the community, others less good. Who can blame them - the community is complex and rarely appears to agree (it takes just 1 loud person to express an opposite opinion even if the other 99 mostly silent people agree). The solution I hear most often is choice (1) - i.e. teach yourself and join the do-ocracy. However there is a major problem here. We want as many mappers as possible to contribute to OSM. As such we need to be attracting people from all walks of life, including those who may just want to dip in and make a small edit every now and then. They might still be passionate about OpenStreetMap’s aim (free geospatial data of the world) but they are held out of many aspects of the project unless they learn all the skills we demand. So what is the solution? Personally I’m not sure but it somehow has to lie in channelling the energy of those who do have the right skills. This is something we are not very good at. We are quick to disagree when that energy is used to do something we disagree with, but as a group we are very bad at channelling that energy to our benefit. Perhaps that is because we have never figured out what the agreed “benefit” is. As such the small group within the do-ocracy are left to their own devices and are left to figure out for themselves how to help the wider community. As noted above, some people are better at this than others, but one thing is common - when they get it wrong they face abuse. Hopefully in time we will find better ways to strengthen the OpenStreetMap community and get it to the point where it can express clearly it’s wishes as one community rather than the current he/she who shouts the loudest. If we can do that, then we (and the OSMF) can focus on pulling in as much help and possible (community volunteer, corporate employee time or corporate money) and channelling it to the things that the community agrees it wants. For now we just continue as is - missing opportunities whilst we argue about something. Meanwhile in the iD project the developers are splitting the project into a core component and an OpenStreetMap plugin. If we’re not careful this will result in new features being developed entirely behind closed doors (e.g. a dedicated version of iD for Company Y) which we have no say in but also don’t get to benefit from if they are good features. Conclusion: If we can find a way to make decisions as a community we can then help drive in this direction rather than just being a passenger not knowing exactly where we will go or how long it will take. |
|
Help required for adding access information to track roads |
Yes, but there is a second element, namely how you interpret the tagging guidelines. I feel that this is important here. What Amazon seem to be suggesting us that they do not believe highway=track on its own is correct for routing to deliverable addresses. Personally I struggle with choosing between highway=track and highway=service in some cases. Looking again at the wiki [1] it states “Roads which provide access to a single property, such as driveways, should be tagged highway=service.” (I think “single” is too string here - it could be a “few”). It also says that track is for agricultural and forestry cases. Based on this interpretation I’m coming to the opinion that despite a ground truth survey the tagging is probably wrong. If Amazon have a property to deliver too (which they do) and can record a GPS trace (which they do), then my interpretation of the guideline is that the track can be re-tagged as highway=service. I would however leave it at that and not add a service=* any access tags or surface=* as they don’t have recorded data for those tags. All views are my own not OSMUK’s. [1] wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway=track |
|
Help required for adding access information to track roads | Hi Jothirnadh, Thanks for sharing this question with the community. I have notified those members signed up to the talk-gb mailing list in case they want to comment. We have a non profit community company here in the UK. Please see osmuk.org or reach out to board@osmuk.org (I am one of the Directors) should you wish to discuss ideas of how we can both help each other. Do you collect any street imagery alongside the GPS tracks? Is this something you may want to consider? Best, Rob |
|
Servus, Bayern: The robots are coming! | Is it a case of the more detailed the imagery the better the result? Have you tried it on any 12.5cm imagery? |
|
More street level imagery = more mapping! | Nice one. Any reason why you picked mapillary for Chiang Mai City and OpenStreetCam for Singapore? Any notable differences? |
|
Road Names in Co Fermanagh, N. Ireland | Good work. Just goes to show it’s always worth asking. If you don’t ask, you don’t get! |
|
Investigating the unusual coordinated member signups close to the OpenStreetMap foundation's election | There are a number of skills that are useful in a board which don’t require you to be an active mapper. For example, it seems the current board are struggling with basics such as communicating their decisions (e.g. Crimea border dispute). And in any case, the OSM ecosystem is huge: why should someone who has decided to spend the last year focusing on promotion, software or documentation not be allowed to try for a board position? It’s up to the voters to decide who they vote for. Perhaps draw some inspiration from the executive director and non executive director arrangement at large companies. Having said that, many of the other suggestions made in the pdf are good and reasonably easy to implement. Beyond those we probably need a proper debate about what direction we want for OSMF. Personally I’d like to find some arrangement that allows for inclusiveness. Heading further into the “us versus them” mentality isn’t my cup of tea. P.s. there have been times during my OSM years where I have struggled to map as often as I would like. For example when committing time to organising SotM or my OSM UK board duties. At no point during those times have I not been committed to OSM. |
|
Fonts missing from OSM Promotional Leaflets | OSM UK has some flyers left. Happy to send a batch. Email me at rob@osmuk.org and I will arrange it. I’m hoping to make the New Year/January meeting Jerry advertised so can pass them to you there if you like? |
|
OSMF membership rates by country |
Really? That’s not what I read. Whilst some worry about the last column having values well in excess of 100, others worry about the last column having numbers far less than 100. Personally I have no issue with come countries “raising the bar” - it encourages others to get involved too. The more the better :-) |
|
OSMF membership rates by country |
That’s not the impression I got from Heather’s response. I took here comment to mean, let’s not just look at the proportionality across USA versus Europe but let’s discuss also how we lift membership in Asia and Africa. Heather: Do you have any ideas how best to achieve this? Countries that are well represented have strong communities so maybe some push on community building in these places is the first step. How can other OSMers and the OSMF help? |
|
The moderation queue. The first 1000 issues | Lots of spam then. I wonder if there is value in having some autodetect steps in place. Maybe just for OSM diaries. |
|
Announcing the DWG's new Organised Editing Guidelines | Thanks. At first glance this is looking good. Compromise was always going to be needed and this seems to strike a good balance. We can always tighten bits if the desired effect is not seen. One question though. Here in the UK we run quarterly projects. In these we pick an area for the community to work on (e.g. footpaths) but leave the details to the community. A tracker tool is often built but nobody if forced to work in a particular way. So how does the new policy apply to these projects, if at all? Cheers, Rob |
|
Keeping OSM up to date with OSMfocus | Hi Michael, Are you thinking of pushing an update now the error has been identified? If not, then I can help search for alternate maintainer. |
|
public_transport tags don't add any information | Yeah I never understood the two node public_transport scheme. It always felt like “tagging for the routing engine” to me. Map what is there - i.e. a bus stop sign or shelter by the side of the road. If you want to mark that it is associated with other stops nearby then do this via a relation. Anyway, I barely have time to map bus stops with one node. Let alone two! |
|
Keeping OSM up to date with OSMfocus | The OSMfocus app has stopped working on my phone. I now says “Could not download area!”. Great shame as this was a wonderful app. @MichaelVL: Do you still have the source code for this? Any chance of a fix/open sourcing it? |
|
MapRoulette destination challenges: success! (and more to do) | Hi Martijn. Do you have any idea what the level of completeness is for the United Kingdom? We are looking towards our next quarterly project (starting July) and one idea is to focus on major road network by adding lanes and exit information. Step 1 is to assess the amount of work required. Lanes don’t look too bad (but could probably do with turn info and finishing touches). No idea about our level of exit/destination data. Cheers. |
|
Creating a quick Survey Kit with Overpass Turbo | Awesome. I’ve never thought of exporting a Overpass Query to PNG to allow me to print it for on the ground mapping. By the way: For opening hours there is the (Android only) StreetComplete app that may interest you. |