Conferences will tend to be biased towards those that can either afford to go there or are paid to be present, so organizations with deep pockets will always be over represented (chatting with somebody during the conferences we were musing if there was a majority present that would be sending in expense claims on Monday, and our conclusion was yes).

This year it was even more noticeable due to the adjacent FOSS4G and naturally due to the fact that you could easily participate online, thanks to the pandemic for that one :-).

@coolmule0 while the ODbL is nominal compatible with itself, that is not the point. Incorporating ODbL licensed data makes a future licence change of any kind (and if it is just fixing the couple of minor issues the current version of the ODbL has), completely dependent on the good will of the original licensors (if they even still exist at that point in time), or removing the data in question.

There’s a further issue with all licenses that don’t allow sub-licensing that makes all such sources problematic, but that isn’t an ODbL specific issue.

Besides everything that has been said, there are regions, for example the UK, where if the outlines were generated from Bing imagery, the imagery is obviously no longer available making it very difficult to determine if the outlines are even just half correct.

The other issue is naturally, as has been pointed out many times, that the licensing isn’t ideal and will long term cause issues.

@woodpeck there are lots of bits and pieces that could have been done 4 years ago with minimum effort and programming, for example restricting access to planet files with PI. This would have been totally unproblematic and with minimal or even no impact (as most consumers immediately throw the problematic data away in the 1st place).

But instead of doing that, distribution of the problematic dumps has actually been increased via torrents and mirrors (9 in 2018, now 17) making the issue worse instead of better.

PS: osm.wiki/w/images/8/88/GDPR_Position_Paper.pdf page 11 contains an an analysis of who would have been impacted in which way by the changes.

‘In the end, I didn’t see much convincing arguments how we could possibly implement the suggested changes without causing at least some breakage in the ecosystem. ‘

This is a bit of a straw man because nobody was suggesting that there would be no breakage, just that nearly all changes would be limited to non-authenticated use.

As to questioning the approach, yes the earth is really really flat.

@mmd you’ve got that the wrong way around. Volunteer interest in doing these tasks hasn’t been forthcoming (for more that 4 years) and is never likely to (for the reasons mentioned). That’s why the OSMF should completely outsource them.

There has just been an extensive discussion of school tagging on the tagging mailing list which you seem to have missed.

That said, detailed school mapping is difficult, there is not even agreement on what a, distinct identifiable, school is. Is a facility operated by the same organisation spread over two locations two schools or one? Are different grades different schools? Are schools using the same facility but different school administration separate or not? At which level of administration are schools the same and when do they become separate entities?

Es wäre vermutlich besser die Frage auf der Schweizer Mailingliste zu stellen, aber welche “Adressabfrage” meinst du, und was gibst du ein?

Ich hab mal nach ein paar Adressen gesucht in der Gegend und hab jetzt nichts aussergewöhnliches gesehen.

@AngocA unclear how creating a note could be much more obvious. Tap the “+” Button and then select “Add map note”.

The rest would seem to be partially an Android glitch (outside of not allowing anonymous notes which is a matter of policy), can you open an issue?

No problem :-) Thanks for the work in any case.

I do have a question though the column “Permite crear notas” would seem to indicate that you can’t create notes with Vespucci, which is however not correct, on the other hand “Enfoque: Creación de notas” is correct. But my non-extistant Spanish might be the issue here.

Vespucci

As in Amerigo Vespucci, the man the continent is named after.

A good example of this working is how the tagging for bicycle parking was refined in a recent proposal.

That should have naturally been a reference to the recent amenity=bicycle_rental improvement.

It should be noted that the proposal process does not include terms for handling “deprecation”, far more it implicitly assumes that the purpose of a proposal is to add/document tagging for objects, or attributes of objects, that previously did not have widely used tagging. See proposal process. A good example of this working is how the tagging for bicycle parking was refined in a recent proposal.

As I’ve said before, some times there are actually good reasons to replace existing tagging, for example when the same tagging has been used for two different things, or technically defect tagging (the indoor tagging scheme that referenced OSM ids in tags comes to mind), but these are relatively rare situations. Outside of these special cases “deprecation” happens over time simply by popularity.

What has become more and more common though is churning tagging by replacing completely functional tagging for superficial reasons. Be it a typo or slightly incorrect spelling in a key or value, be it top level categorization that doesn’t quite fit.

Typical of these proposals is not only to they bring -zero- additional value (after all the objects were already being mapped), but they supposedly “deprecate” the existing tagging, which is not more than an attempt to justify a later mechanical edit, because that is actually were the itch is.

This is not only actively data consumer hostile, it doesn’t make the slightest difference to the vast majority of contributors that never see the actual key value combinations that we internally use in the data.

To use a recent tag-churning example, parcel drop off/pick up machines will continue to be presented to the majority of contributors as a “Parcel Locker” (for whatever reason iD decided to change the name from “Parcel Pickup/Dropoff Locker” to “Parcel Locker” which however just proves my point).

@skquinn IMHO that’s a matter of debate, I would only add a name to a place object of appropriate kind (that could naturally be on the same geometry as a landuse=residential).

In the case of the NSI the use is questionable in another dimension as the NSI was intended for correct tagging of chains and similar, don’t quite see where landuse is supposed to fit in there to start with.

@mmd not only that, it would be weirdly at odds with the global trend to use map matching to transmit and store such information (that is OpenLR and similar, some actually using OSM data).

Now something that could actually make sense is build our own infrastructure and data collection around such a concept, including enabling providing an API for clients to access the data. It is unlikely that the OSMF would ever take something like that on, but a separate project could easily do that.

@Zverik you write

By the way, it also brought users that have contributed tens of thousands POIs, so dismissing the app because of the long tail is missing the point. I’m pretty sure iD has a similar user distribution.

Back in 2017 I actually did some statistics on mapper retention, I’m fairly sure that I mention them back then, but in any case I just reran them for 2021 and nothing has changed. The gist is that mapper retention for new accounts was and is substantially lower for maps.me than iD, by an order of magnitude, with streetcomplete being in between. The actual surprise in the numbers is that even with maps.me demise, streetcomplete is a smaller source of new mappers.

@Mateuz I was pointing out that economic basis for other editors will vanish and that they are not really sustainable even now. That has nothing to do with if they do something slightly different or target a different audience.

As to your bit about beginners using Vespucci, thats akin to complaining that chainsaws are not designed for children. No they aren’t and it even says so on the box.

PS: give osmybiz.ch a look, it currently isn’t mobile friendly but that could be worked on.

Generating a note is counterproductive (not to mention that it has been done before), it increases the workload on mappers that typically are not there (if they were there they would have added the POI) and just creates frustration with the user because they will add the note and nothing will happen.

Further anything that requires an install is a nono, that is a much higher hurdle than creating an account.