Thanks, @Andy.

I believe that that map is the one that caused (whoever) to put the name for Gedling at completely the wrong place.

Will you use your contacts to get that first poster deleted, please? (spam).

Thanks for that @TomH. I found Phoenix Farm clearly marked on the 1952 1:1,250 map, and it is exactly opposite Jessops Lane. Sure enough, the farm buildings are on the location of today’s garages. I was also pleased to discover that Manor Farm is the building-with-a-bulge-in-it, just as I suspected.

Those maps are indeed all OS maps, so they probably are the same source maps.

@Stereo: Can Leaflet be used within these Diaries? Because that’s what I was talking about.

@andy mackey: loved that link. I suspected that the USA would drive far more than just cattle. However, I also suspect that the cobblers used something other than nails for geese & turkey boots (not a job I’d like). And what a job driving geese must have been! Next to a cat herder one of the most difficult jobs in the world, I would have thought, and especially during the migration season.

You are, of course, correct @R0bst3r. However, there are lots of non-fatal bugs to fix in terracer but I cannot find any way to include it within a debug session.

My last hope was for an exception to be thrown, and for the stacktrace to be able to auto-switch from JOSM to terracer. No chance.

Hi @Stereo

Well, those ‘developers’ do not yet include me.

I’ve just spent 3 days adding 100 terraces (>200 houses) without an exception being thrown. I’ve also spent weeks & weeks working on JOSM with Eclipse & cannot find any way in which I can debug terracer, largely (it seems in my ignorance) to the decision to use a non-standard ‘Main’ as the start-routine (rather than ‘main’). Even if terracer is clear of fatal bugs it has lots of non-fatal bugs to fix, but I cannot find the way to launch it as part of a JOSM debug session.

I’m going to try netbeans instead, I think.

@R0bst3r

I’ve now spent 3 days adding 100 terraces (sets of houses, NOT 100 individual houses) and it hasn’t thrown an exception at any point. I’m giving up on Eclipse. If I can bugfix with Netbeans then I’ll work on terracer, else will forget it completely (can you tell that I’m truly pissed off?).

@R0bst3r

I’ve just completed adding all the houses I had left from the last survey (17 sets of terraces + 1 set of garages); it was not enough to trip an exception. I’ll have to survey some more & try again.

I placed breakpoints at:-

• OsmPrimitive.java:244 (a certain exception)
• OsmPrimitive.java:988 (previous step in the stacktrace)
• TerracerAction.java:473 (top-level in terracer stacktrace)

As fully expected, it stopped at OsmPrimitive.java:988 before completing startup. I tried stepping through using f5 but eventually had to resume using f8. That also continually stopped at OsmPrimitive.java:988 & eventually I determined that I would commit suicide before ever reaching the point of being able to add another house. So, I toggled the OsmPrimitive.java:988 breakpoint enablement, pressed f8 & added all the houses I had left from my last survey.

Hi @R0bst3r

Sorry for the delay in my response; after ~6 weeks I can finally go to bed & not have an hour of cough cough cough (last night). The night before I could not sleep all night due to my coughing, yet the following night I was OK. Anyway, I’m good now.

There is a full stack-trace in ticket-14261.

• Exception seems to be thrown at OsmPrimitive.java:244 (/josm/core/src/org/openstreetmap/josm/data/osm/OsmPrimitive.java)

    public void checkDataset() {
       if (dataSet == null)
       throw new DataIntegrityProblemException("Primitive must be part of the dataset: " + toString());
    }
  

I’m concerned that if I place a breakpoint in OsmPrimitive.java, then I will have to resume on every single house-creation (it took creating >30 last time before JOSM threw the exception, and took a couple of hours to enter).

The issue, of course, is to know why the dataSet is NUL.

Ah well, I am feeling stronger now, so I’ll have a go after a sleep. What I’m trying to find out at this moment is why previously the debug screens came up when the exception was triggered within JOSM core, but not now when it is triggered by an issue within terracer.

Thanks for your response. I’ll post again when I get some results (I’m hoping to see my grandkids soon so it may be a few days hence).

Hi Stereo

The JOSM behaviour is identical inside or outside Eclipse, in spite of a (small) range of different versions involved. Currently this is: > add ~30 houses using terracer

…and it will then reliably throw an exception every time terracer is used to terrace a building.

The problem, of course, is that the exception comes not from JOSM (which when launched from Eclipse would cause the bug-screens to show). The exception is instead thrown from terracer, and Eclipse just says “nuthin’ to do with me, honey”.

Hi @Stereo

Yes indeed; something used to be there but is no longer (this is the view from the bottom, looking towards the left, which is East towards Nottingham town centre):-

Development in the area has been so extensive that old maps are unlikely to help (although I looked at all that I could find) (none online). Here are some facts to try to help:-

1. The Street that the no-name street connects to is called Blue Bell Hill Road (BBH)
2. Houses on BBH were first built about 1880.
3. As best as I can tell, the BBH Victorian houses were NOT built locally on this side (that entire stretch was empty), but only on the south side of the street.
4. The nearest Victorian building on this side appears to be St Bartholomew’s Church (built 1894, demolished 1971) and located on what is now Wickens Walk
5. The current houses on this (north) side were built ~1970 as part of a complete re-development of this part of Nottingham. The greatest majority of the existing housing was demolished at that time, including a very large part of BBH. As it happens, most of the BBH Victorian houses close to no-name street were retained but that was unusual and, in any case, no-name street did not exist in Victorian times.

I’ve lived fairly close to this street since the 1980s and have never heard a whisper of just why this very odd street exists, nor how it has become orphaned in such a way.

Hi @d1g

This may seem strange or unusual to you, but I constantly work to gain a perception that encompasses more than just myself & my own biases.

It’s a good job that Lewis & Clark were unaffiliated to the OSM organisation.

PS
I’ll call middle-class idiots that try to steal my smartphone & strike me any damn thing that I like.

Interesting comment, @escada. With ~400 people uploading 1,000,000 photos every 2 days (manual + mobile) (73k people => 183m photos yearly), then god knows how many folks viewing those photos, the possible miracle is that the servers manage to stay afloat. I spent 15+ years managing a single webserver and recall continual firefighting as I battled attempted scrapes (max 403 / second from Technicolor) & spam. Yet that was with a quiet machine. Goodness knows what Mapillary or OSM must be like.

Then try mapping it rather than spamming this Diary. Or have you not yet got the point of OSM? Which is to map things.

@Warin61: > I am still finding roads and tracks to put on the map

In Britain the Ordnance Survey map was finally released under a copyright acceptable for OSM, so all the streets are fully imported. It needs only a few trims to get it perfectly correct. That mostly leaves the houses. They are a long, long business: 76 houses on one circular street took ~1 hour to survey (and twice that normally to put up on the map).

“… a little bit of an inconvenience to drive on this stretch”

How splendid! I did not realise that the Japanese deployed British-style under-statement.

That is a smashing sinkhole, and well done for your rapid response in mapping it. However, at 30m it is a long way below the 120m Russian Sinkhole that emerged in September 2015.

Thanks Andy, I’ll add a Coda to the Diary pointing out your comments.

You are big on declamation but missing on reason. Why are they better channels? And why not a Diary entry? What’s the big deal that causes you to come over so proscriptive so quickly?

Hello Richard 2

If there was a method for me to delete those Posts after they became redundant I would do so (just like if it was possible to edit these comments I would add afterthoughts to the original comment rather than write another).

Hello Richard

There is one difference between my ‘notes’ & the other ‘notes’: mine arn’t spam (and neither are they complaints they are an attempt to help).

Thanks for the step-by-step on IRC; that’s the kind of thing that I need. I’ll give that another go next time - much appreciated.