Hello golf course mapper. The lines that define Fairways and Greens should never intersect or partially overlap each other and we noticed that they are overlapping in one or more of the fairway/green pairs in this changeset. If there is no obvious fringe around the green, the fairway should butt up against the green and every node between them should be *shared*. If there is a fringe around the green that is similar to the fairway, the fairway should extend around the green and the two objects should be merged together into a multipolygon (See osm.wiki/Relation:multipolygon for how to create them with your map editor). Please read the wiki for instructions and examples of how to better map golf courses: osm.wiki/Tag:leisure%3Dgolf_course#Common_mapping_pitfalls. If you have any questions, please reply here and I'll gladly help clarify things. Thanks!

Hello golf course mapper. The lines that define Fairways and Greens should never intersect or partially overlap each other and we noticed that they are overlapping in one or more of the fairway/green pairs in this changeset. If there is no obvious fringe around the green, the fairway should butt up against the green and every node between them should be *shared*. If there is a fringe around the green that is similar to the fairway, the fairway should extend around the green and the two objects should be merged together into a multipolygon (See osm.wiki/Relation:multipolygon for how to create them with your map editor). Please read the wiki for instructions and examples of how to better map golf courses: osm.wiki/Tag:leisure%3Dgolf_course#Common_mapping_pitfalls. If you have any questions, please reply here and I'll gladly help clarify things. Thanks!

Can you please fix up osm.org/way/1120471967 and osm.org/way/1120471966 ? I'm not sure how they are supposed to be oriented from the change.

fsdf?

RE: osm.org/way/1379008922

Please do not make a multipolygon relation with 20 different line segments that define the boundary of a fairway. The fairway should be a single closed path. Not one made of many different pieces.

Also, the fairway should extend around the green and share nodes with the outside edge. You should either leave space for the fringe, or you should draw the fairway on the inside boundary of the green, making sure to share the nodes on the boundary. Thanks.

Hello Enjoister,

You are breaking/deleting multipolygon relations and leaving behind a comment of "Fixing" fairways. This is actually not fixing them. You might be confused, but just in case I'm the one that is confused, can you explain what is wrong with the fairways before you deleted the relation? I'm confident that they are correct and want to chat with you discuss any issues. Thanks.

If you're interested, there is a MapRoulette challenge for cleaning up partial overlaps between fairways and greens.

https://maproulette.org/browse/challenges/50926

Hi Ronca, thanks for getting back to me. I'm glad to hear that you are fixing things, but it is unclear that you understood my message and are now familiar with relations and multipolygons and how to edit them. Can you please address those concerns? Thanks.

Oh, and if you're asking why that particular segment doesn't have any tags, that is because it is part of a larger relation (osm.org/relation/8143217) that carries all the tags for the members of the relation. Is that what you were asking?

Hello Charles,

There is a limit to the number of nodes a segment can contain. The limit is 2000 nodes. If someone new comes along and wants to refine the way and add a few nodes, it is confusing on how they proceed and split the node up and make sure the relation exists and is ordered correctly.

There are QA tools that flag any segments that are over 1800 nodes. I work to make sure those segments are under that trigger limit so that newer users don't have to worry about bumping up against the 2000 node limit.

Does that help?

RE: osm.org/way/1378753422, et al

Hello Meatsia,

The lines that define Fairways and Greens should never intersect or partially overlap each other and we noticed that they are overlapping in one or more of the fairway/green pairs in this changeset. If there is no obvious fringe around the green, the fairway should butt up against the green and every node between them should be *shared*. If there is a fringe around the green that is similar to the fairway, the fairway should extend around the green and the two objects should be merged together into a multipolygon (See osm.wiki/Relation:multipolygon for how to create them with your map editor). Please read the wiki for instructions and examples of how to better map golf courses: osm.wiki/Tag:leisure%3Dgolf_course#Common_mapping_pitfalls. If you have any questions, please reply here and I'll gladly help clarify things. Thanks!

As I mentioned before in a previous changeset comment, you are breaking multipolygon relations. For example: osm.org/relation/18974781. Please see the previous discussion (osm.org/changeset/164217730) and address those issues before making any more golf course edits involving multipolygons. Thanks.

Hello Lulzy,

RE: osm.org/way/1378456541

Please make sure you share *all* of the nodes at the boundary between the green and the fairway. If they overlap, they triggered Quality checks and someone has to go and fix them. So please be mindful of that. You might want to familiarize yourself with this wiki page: osm.wiki/Tag:leisure%3Dgolf_course

Are you working with a team on these edits? I see a few of you all editing the same area so I'm guessing this is a group thing. Can you let others know of this issue as well? Thanks!

I realize this might have been the creator, and not you, but while you're editing the fairway, if you could look for this problem, it would be very helpful. Thanks.

RE: osm.org/way/905945146

Please make sure you share all nodes between the fairway and green. If you skip a node like you did in the above fairway, it will overlap with the green ever so slightly and set off the quality assurance checks. Thanks.

Hello Numac,

Please be aware that you are improperly deleting several relations that have been set up to describe how fairways and greens are represented on the map. You should be leaving those relations intact and modifying the members of the relations instead of deleting and recreating them or somehow breaking the relation. You can read more about multipolygons in the wiki: osm.wiki/Relation:multipolygon

Another wiki that you should read is the "keep the history" wiki: osm.wiki/Keep_the_history which talks about the benefits of maintaining history by not deleting elements, but modifying them instead where it makes sense.

Please familiarize yourself with those before editing any more multipolygons in your golf course work. If you have any questions, please let me know.
Thanks.

Hey there jmarchon, please let me know exactly what you think was broken about the relation. I'm going to put it back to the state I think is valid. If you could leave it that way and point out the problems, we can discuss it. Curious to see your reasoning. (Also, come join us for dinner Monday and we can talk about it in person. :)

Thanks for getting back to me, and I’m sorry there has been confusing messaging in the past on the issue. We are trying to clear things up with documenting best practices on the wiki and spreading the word.

The problem originally stems from a very popular video that encourages people to *overlap* the fairway and green, which is very wrong. Tens of thousands of golf course holes have been drawn like that and there has been misleading messaging to stop doing that. But the correct thing is to butt them up together and carefully share the nodes at the boundary.

I’ve embarked on a massive cleanup project to fix all of these so people have good examples to follow and I’m also working on chasing down anyone that makes this particular mistake and getting the word out to prevent it from happening going forward.

Thanks for listening,
b-jazz

Please fully connect fairways and greens together (like osm.org/way/1378169412) by sharing all the nodes that border between them. See the golf_course wiki for examples of what this would look like: osm.wiki/Tag:leisure%3Dgolf_course#Common_mapping_pitfalls

Thanks. Please feel free to reach out if you need help.

RE: osm.org/relation/18852672

Hi Compo. Welcome to mapping out golf courses, and mapping in general. I want to point out some problems in hopes that you can improve your mapping going forward.

First thing is that you have deleted parts of a multipolygon relation. You can read more about multipolygons on the wiki: osm.wiki/Relation:multipolygon. When you deleted the green, you broke the relation and left the fairway without it's inner boundary (the green).

That leads to the next problem of deleting things in order to recreate them from scratch. There is a core belief that history should be maintained instead of deleted. So it's best to modify that green instead of deleting it. See the wiki: osm.wiki/Keep_the_history

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.