OpenStreetMap
#CrimeaІsUkraine #DWG #CrimeaMap #КримЦеУкраїна #ИхТамНет
Написано от andergrin на 30 ноември 2018 на Ukrainian (Українська).The Ukrainian community is concerned about the possible negative impact on the project as a whole, the emergence of lawsuits from users of data and the subsequent decline of the project, and therefore restores the borders of Ukraine to the internationally recognized status. The recent decision of DWG ( https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Group_Minutes/DWG_2018-11-14_Crimea ) neglects the wide recognition of Crimea as an integral part of Ukraine expressed by numerous governments and international organizations (in particular, UN General Assembly Resolution 68/262 http://www.un.org/en/ga/68/resolutions.shtml ). DWG actions directed to cut off Crimea from the borders of Ukraine are considered to be inadequate to the interests of the project and are not recognized by law. Any blockages (bans) aimed against members who restored the border of Ukraine to the widely internationally recognized status will be seen as unjustified pressure on the entire community and usurpation of power in the OSM.
P.S.
“changing names or country information would require consensus from both the Ukrainian and Russian communities. It is unlikely that any such edit proposals will be able to achieve this.” (с) DWG //
Moreover, according to clause 4, a consensus should be reached between the Ukrainian and Russian communities on changing information about countries. There is no consensus - there is no reason to separate the Crimea from Ukraine.
CrimeaІsUkraine #DWG #CrimeaMap #КримЦеУкраїна #ИхТамНет
998 - osm.org/user/Дівчина_з_Коломиї ;
#997 - osm.org/user/паляниця - osm.org/user_blocks/2356 ; #996 - osm.org/user/frankoivan - osm.org/user_blocks/2355 ; #995 - osm.org/user/pumpkinpie226 - osm.org/user_blocks/2354 ; #994 - osm.org/user/Хтосьіншийдятел - osm.org/user_blocks/2353 ; #993 - osm.org/user/KKS - osm.org/user_blocks/2347 ; #992 - osm.org/user/ue0 - osm.org/user_blocks/2350 ; #991 - osm.org/user/andergrin - osm.org/user_blocks/2348 ;
…and other
https://www.facebook.com/openstreetmapua // https://twitter.com/osm_ua // https://t.me/osmUA // openstreetmap.ua@gmail.com
Discussion
Коментар от amapanda ᚛ᚐᚋᚐᚅᚇᚐ᚜ 🏳️🌈 в 30 ноември 2018 в 10:09
The people of Ukraine have my sympathy. Violence and aggression like this is wrong. I’m curious what rule you think OSM should use for country borders if we are to change from the “de facto control on the ground rule”. UN Resolutions are tricky, what do we put for the borders of Isreal & Palestine? “Numerous Governments” is vague, which governments? Should Kosovo be marked as a separate country?
I can understand why you’re angry, and I’m not saying you shouldn’t be. We are making a map of the whole world, and we need to agree on clear standards. Perhaps we can figure out a better approach.
Коментар от andergrin в 30 ноември 2018 в 10:37
Thank you for your support. I hope that better solution will be found.
Коментар от redsteakraw в 30 ноември 2018 в 14:55
Groundtruth is king, the completion of the Crimean Bridge cemented Russian rule in Crimea like it or not. If anyone would go to Crimea they would be subject to Russian law, have the borders protected by Russian military and would pay Russian taxes. Other than fanciful claims in which concrete ways is Crimea on the ground part of Ukraine? Ground truth has always been a core principle of OSM any you want us to turn our backs on one of our core values. Who are you to demand such things? The map should reflect reality as bleak or upsetting as it may be. Crimea now and for the foreseeable future is part of Russia. I don’t see the Ukrainian military challenging that fact as well. You need to come to terms with reality and put aside nationalistic pride and try to look at things more objectively.
Коментар от velmyshanovnyi в 30 ноември 2018 в 16:15
“Crimea is Ukrainian territory” (с) https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-supports-us-declaration-condemning-the-illegal-annexation-of-crimea
Коментар от redsteakraw в 30 ноември 2018 в 17:22
@velmyshanovnyi yes people with self inflated importance of their opinions will have fanciful claims that differ from reality. However even in there they want Russia to release it which would imply Russia has it therefore Russian Territory.
Коментар от Legioner в 30 ноември 2018 в 21:08
@redsteakraw fell free to travel there from Russia and see what legal effects you’ll get. That’s OK to get from one country region to another, right? So it’s OK to get to Crimea via the Crimean Bridge? If you are not pretending you do not know anything - https://euroradio.fm/en/how-travel-companies-take-belarusians-crimean-bridge .
Коментар от Kilkenni в 30 ноември 2018 в 21:18
@redsteakraw “If anyone would go to Crimea they would be subject to Russian law”
And if that “anyone” goes outside of Crimea he will be subject to laws of other nations as well as international ones. I can’t help but wonder why are you so preoccupied with Russian laws and conveniently ignore all the others.
For example, Crimean ports are off-limits to any foreign ship. If a captain decides to visit it, he will be prosecuted (except in case he wants to spend the rest of his life in Russia). Any big company dealing in Crimea risks facing sanctions; that’s why big Russian banks don’t open their offices in Crimea, and Aeroflot went as far as creating a “separate” flight operator for Crimean direction to avoid being sued. Siemens is being sued for providing power turbines for Crimea as we speak.
As for “protecting borders with Russian military”, we had the chance to see them in action less than a week ago when a bunch of coastal guard ships supported by assault copters and SU-30 fighters attacked and seized 3 Ukrainian ships in international waters. Nice work protecting borders, yeah.
Коментар от Legioner в 30 ноември 2018 в 21:28
@Kilkenni I guess, now DWG will make these waters also Russian territory, am I right? It should be so, according to their “rules”. Mb we should also remap all pirate territories such as near Somalia.
Коментар от redsteakraw в 30 ноември 2018 в 22:56
@Kilkenni apparently Russia is far better at protecting it’s borders than Ukraine whose only defense is to cry to the UN and to OSMF. Push comes to shove Russia still controls the area, and isn’t afraid of further humiliating the Ukrainian military. As for what other countries responses towards people that travel there it is within what they can enforce in the borders they control. As an American there are places I just can’t legally travel to but that is how it is. I still will stick to ground truth and hold to those principles unlike some people and still can not care less what ridiculous desperate proclamations get put out. Admit to yourself that Russia controls Crimea and unless you want to go try to challenge that with physical force good luck( I’ll even cheer for you).