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Copyright on marine boundaries

Pubblicato da chriscf il 16 agosto 2010 in English.

The boundaries we have for the UK at sea are horrenedously inaccurate. There are an awful lot of lines that are seemingly put in there to give closed polygons (IMO on par with tagging for the renderer - distorting the data for the convenience of some tool). Believe it or not, it's perfectly acceptable to leave them open if we don't know where one side actually is.

Take a look in the Bristol Channel, and you'll find a border - that part is in reality territorial waters. Worse still, look between the Scottish Highlands and the Outer Hebrides and you'll find a border running through what are actually internal waters, since the baseline is drawn around it.

The actual demarcation points for the baseline, including the boundaries between internal zones attributable to the four nations, are defined in legislation, where they are simply listed as lat/lon co-ordinates. I'm not sure whether these are necessarily off-limits - I can find nothing which makes French legislation public domain (as is the case in e.g. the USA) and yet we have these: osm.org/browse/node/479324518

Would anyone think that a list of lat/lon pairs listed in an Order-in-Council is subject to copyright, or would they amount to "bare fact"?

(Of course, the above is nothing next to the heinous crime of drawing the Irish boundaries *through* Lough Foyle and Carlingford Lough.)

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Discussione

Commento di Vclaw il 17 agosto 2010 alle 01:40

Have you seen this post on the Talk-GB list: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2010-August/010105.html
It refers to the map here, which is using OSM as a background: http://www.mczmapping.org/

Its an official thing from Defra etc, and it seems they are wanting to get the correct marine boundaries in OSM. So maybe they can supply the official boundaries under a suitable licence.

Commento di chriscf il 17 agosto 2010 alle 02:19

Bizarrely, they seem to have felt the need to get this from what looks like a third-party supplier under licence, so they wouldn't be in a position to release. It also looks like most of the smaller discrepancies are to do with various islands that we're missing, or just needing a robot redrawing.

The worst part is that we know where the non-MLW baseline is (it's right there in the legislation - for example http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?LegType=All+Secondary&title=Territorial+Sea+%28Amendment%29+&searchEnacted=0&extentMatchOnly=0&confersPower=0&blanketAmendment=0&sortAlpha=0&TYPE=QS&PageNumber=1&NavFrom=0&parentActiveTextDocId=2786697&ActiveTextDocId=2786697&filesize=12974 has the bit around the west of Scotland). It's a matter of whether plotting points at those co-ordinates and drawing the lines scheduled in the various Orders would amount to infringement. If so, we'd have a bigger problem, because the appropriate body to approach for release would IIUC be Parliament itself (or, worse, OPSI). Then there's the issue of counties, etc. There are some conflicting provisions - traditionally, counties extend to MLW, but at least one statute relating to Wales places the boundaries of the principal areas at baseline+3nm.

Commento di Damouns il 17 agosto 2010 alle 07:48

Hello, I mapped the maritime boudary between Jersey and France, and I took for granted that a list of lat/lon pairs in an official text of French legislation is public domain data. I am pretty sure that it must be the case anywhere else...

Anyway, I also found this page: http://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/data/maritime-boundaries (so, an official European Union page) where data is said "based on free of rights sources" (in "Data_Access_Conditions"). It provides Administrative Maritime Boundaries based on United Nations Law of the Sea texts and "The results as such are of free access, use and dissemination." [it is like a CC0?] And the French text I used is a part of these United Nations Law of the Sea texts.

Commento di Damouns il 17 agosto 2010 alle 08:05

By the way, in the link I gave, there are [at least a part of] the baselines of UK, when they aren't following the coastline ; maybe you could re-calculate all the maritime boundaries of the British Isles with that?

Commento di Andy Allan il 17 agosto 2010 alle 08:57

I think the coordinates will be fine to use - I can't see anyone suggesting you would need a contract, license or similar to use the information provided in statue law. Just remember to convert them from OSGB36 to WGS84!

Commento di chriscf il 17 agosto 2010 alle 16:27

Having gone and converted them from DMS to decimal, and then from OSGB36 to WGS84 *twice* and now got different results, I now see from another order that actually the numbers may not have been DMS, but degrees and decimal minutes. *sigh*

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