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Deník uživatele h4ck3rm1k3

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Diskuse

Komentář od davespod z 26. 03. 2010 v 10:08

I don't see the difference, from a copyright perspective, between comparing OSM to GeoEye and comparing OSM to vectors traced from GeoEye.

Komentář od h4ck3rm1k3 z 26. 03. 2010 v 10:49

The difference is
1. the issue of tracing is not even decided legally.
2. the comparsion of the vectors can for example indicate shifts or other small fine tuning issues that should not be subject to legal issues.
3. even if it turns out we cannot use it, at least we will get clarity, so the action would be to bring some type of decision to the question.

Komentář od h4ck3rm1k3 z 26. 03. 2010 v 11:02

Also, the main point of this is :
1. we can apply openstreetmap techniques to the closed problem of tracing. People can share the data with each other. It can be kept separate from osm data.

So the usage of that traced data as an overlay would be as legal as the tracing is, at least it would not affect osm and it would provide an alternative layer.

mike

Komentář od Pieren z 26. 03. 2010 v 12:47

You are working in the wrong order : first check what can be done with your produced work (at a legal point of view). Then look for the tools. What's the advantage of creating data that cannot be used freely and widely ? Are you working for the copyright owners ? It's not because the data sources (the images) and the tools are available that it is necessarily a good idea to mix them to produce something new if the final result is useless. But good luck for your initiative. I just hope that people will not waste their time there. Or just work directly for GMapMaker.

Komentář od h4ck3rm1k3 z 26. 03. 2010 v 12:52

if it is not doable, then it wont be done.
I wanted to present this idea and get some feedback.
thank you for your time.

Komentář od davespod z 26. 03. 2010 v 18:05

"even if it turns out we cannot use it, at least we will get clarity, so the action would be to bring some type of decision to the question. "

I am not against your going off and creating a database based on GeoEye, and keeping it completely separate to OSM, to see whether they successfully sue you or not.

However, I would be against you using that derived database to "fine tune" OSM - if that means what I think it means (moving OSM vectors to line up precisely with the vectors derived from GeoEye). That would completely remove the safe separation and mean that OSM would be as "contaminated" as your separate database!

Komentář od h4ck3rm1k3 z 26. 03. 2010 v 18:32

OK!
well wikimapia is one such project.
Also the data derived from that could not be fed into osm, but it could be merged into a new derived work that has both datasources in it, like roadmatcher.

The point is that there are so many such datasources available, at least we could have wms and wfs layers, searching and other tools available for them.

In fact, the only thing that I am interested in is contours and polygons that can be extracted using gdal. that is what i would like to have.

We will have to go into what is fair use, what information is it legal to use in comparing streets. I think that it is for educational purposes possible to fairly use some data. There must be a way to do some clean room reverse engineering of the comparison data. For example, use that information to find public domain references that would collaborate the facts.

if you know that this street is off, and then find 10 web references to support that information, you could write a paper about that steet comparing the all available sources, giving its history etc.

that might be fair use.

Komentář od davespod z 26. 03. 2010 v 18:55

Yes - I am sure there may be fair uses of that data set. It is only its use in OSM that I am at all concerned about. I am not against parallel projects, such as Wikimapia existing. Where the law is a grey area or not well tested, it is for each project's community to decide what risks they wish to take. The OSM community always seems to have gone for the "whiter than white" approach, and I think it would be a shame for this to change.

I realise that there is a body of opinion that says that an aerial photo copyright holder cannot claim any copyright on derived maps. It would be interesting to see a test case happen - but let's not make OSM the test case!

Anyway, good luck. I'm afraid I won't volunteer, as I am spending all of the very little time I do have on on-the-ground surveying and mapping of my own surrounds.

Komentář od h4ck3rm1k3 z 27. 03. 2010 v 11:09

we can look for streets on restricted maps, and then use that information to scan those areas on the landsat and yahoo maps for confirmation. that would be a 100% legal use of a restricted map. dont you think?

Komentář od davespod z 27. 03. 2010 v 13:58

I think there are differing opinions on the extent to which it is ok to look at a non-free map we are not licensed to derive from and say "oh look - there seems to be a street over there, let's go and survey it and get a GPS trace to map from (or lets see if we can trace it off landsat or an aerial we are allowed to use). My own view is it is probably ok, but I'm sure not all would agree. What would definitely not be ok would be to trace it from the restricted map (or fine tune its location and geometry), even if you then confirmed that landsat, etc., also showed it.

By the way, I assume you mean Yahoo aerials - obviously you can't use Yahoo Maps!

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