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jkirk ߕߋ߬ߟߋ߲

Obsolete "railway:lanes" keys on ways

ߊ߬ ߟߊߦߟߍ߬ߣߍ߲߬ ߦߋ߫ jkirk ߓߟߏ߫ 30 August 2020 ߦߋ߫ English ߟߋ߬ ߘߐ߫

Today I noticed some ways which are tagged with “railway:lanes” in Graz, but no Wiki-Page exists for such a key: osm.wiki/Key:railway:lanes

I assume this key is wrong and I will start to remove them. (If I am wrong please correct me).

The overpass-turbo link to all ways with a key “railway:lanes”: https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Xxo

ߘߌ߲߬ߞߌߙߊ: Innere Stadt, Graz, Styria, 8011, Austria
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Discussion

ߡߙߌߣߊ߲ ߞߊ߬ ߝߘߊ߫ highflyer74 ߟߊ߫ 30 August 2020 at 21:01 ߘߐ߫

Hello jkirk!

Without knowing railway:lanes a few thoughts:

  • Blog entries are not the right place to discuss this, because only a few people read them. More useful here would be the forum, or as it’s about tagging, the tagging mailing list.

  • A Wiki article is not a prerequisite for the validity of a tag

  • The tag is not only used in Graz (https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=railway%3Alanes)

  • Such an approach should definitely be discussed with the local community.

Hallo jkirk!

Ohne mich mit railway:lanes auszukennen ein paar Gedanken:

  • Blog Einträge sind nicht der passende Ort, dies zu diskutieren, da sie nur von wenigen Leuten gelesen werden. Sinnvoller wäre hier das Forum, oder da es um Tagging geht, die Tagging Mailing Liste.

  • Ein Wiki Artikel ist keine Voraussetzung für die Validität eines Tags

  • Das Tag wird nicht nur in Graz verwendet (https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=railway%3Alanes)

  • Ein solches Vorgehen sollte unbedingt mit der lokalen Community abgesprochen werden.

ߡߙߌߣߊ߲ ߞߊ߬ ߝߘߊ߫ jkirk ߟߊ߫ 31 August 2020 at 02:24 ߘߐ߫

Hi highflyer74!

Thank you very much for reaching out!

First, please give me a chance to give a short response with my thoughts about your comment:

  • My blog/diary is just what it is: a journal / diary about things I do, learn and encounter around OSM. I feel a bit flattered that someone (you) even read my article and I am grateful for your comments. But I really had no intention on starting a discussion here (at most this blog (entry) is a reminder to myself in case I have a chance to talk to experienced OSM mappers).
  • Actually, what are the prerequisites for a valid tag? I “know”, a Wiki article is not mandatory, but I never was able find a definite answer. (The closest I could find is here and I think mapping should be consistent (at least as much as possible).)
  • You are right, but still: ~300 - ~500 tags in 5 cites (in Europe) do not seem very “well-established”.
  • Talking to the local community is a must, sure.

Long story short: I will reach out to the local OSM community and ask for their opinion. Thanks again for you comment.

ߡߙߌߣߊ߲ ߞߊ߬ ߝߘߊ߫ Sanderd17 ߟߊ߫ 31 August 2020 at 11:22 ߘߐ߫

what are the prerequisites for a valid tag?

For data to be added to OSM, it should just be static and verifiable.

If you try to add such data, and no tag for it exists, you are allowed to create your own tag. It is advised but not obligatory to document it.

However, the tag you mention is documented. It’s the lanes extension to the railway tag.

The railway tag is documented here: osm.wiki/Railways And how a lanes extension works is documented here: osm.wiki/Lanes

Any tag that can be used on a road can get a :lanes extension. So it’s perfectly valid tagging.

ߡߙߌߣߊ߲ ߞߊ߬ ߝߘߊ߫ jkirk ߟߊ߫ 31 August 2020 at 16:37 ߘߐ߫

I am aware that :lanes are valid tags. Although I am absolutely not “into” railway/tram mapping/tagging, the problem (I have) here is that in this case (1,2) that the tram way is (has been) mapped separately (in the meanwhile?) (aka the “trams run two lanes on a road that is not structurally separate in directional lanes” and the “tram tracks are drawn as two ways and the road as a way in between”, quoted from tram).

So the question for me now is, if the tram has been mapped separately, should there still be a railway:lanes=tram key on the main road?

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