We got the permission: osm.wiki/Permissions/Strava so go ahead and trace!

Hi. Regarding “truly FOSS, ad and tracker free navigation app” I find OsmAnd to be just that. Have you tried it? It works really well for me and I have used it for navigating both in the woods on foot as well as in the city and on vacation, driving by car.

I replied to Strava with: “Hello Scarlett

Thanks for getting back to me.

I did not get a response to my question, so I would like to ask if you could please escalate this to your manager or to somebody authorized to give me a yes or no if I am allowed to trace from your heatmaps.

Note that in 2014 we got the permission from Paul Mach, Former Director of Strava Labs: “https://twitter.com/paulmach/status/455182880306905088 Guillaume Rischard: «OK to use heatmap in JOSM editor?» Paul Mach, Former Director of Strava Labs: «Feel free to use the heatmap tiles for any map editing» 13 apr 2014”

I believe that this is win-win situation for Strava and OSM. Strava could increase their brand recognition and realize better quality maps if this were permitted. A lot of OSM-contributors are potential Strava users also. There are literally millions of OSM contributors.

If you permit us to trace from your map you benefit by having a better background map and a large possible userbase at Strava.

Thanks for taking this one step further by asking a manager to give us a yes or no.

Thanks in advance

Cheers pangoSE on behalf of the 5.8 million OpenStreetMap volunteers. osm.org/stats/data_stats.html”

Oh, both the domain and any subpages I tried gave 404 after a long time of loading. Now they work again.

This is good Andy! Could you contribute this to CartoOSM?

You are suggesting, if I understand correctly, to change the definition of the following: natural=water = only “natural” water lakes is tagged with this landuse=reservoir = water surface not a lake, man_made landuse=basin = any water surface not covered and not a lake, not a reservoir

Is that correct? As I stated above this is very unprecise. I want a precise, well maintained geodatabase with a tagging scheme that helps adding more details. E.g. I invented water=bay for the specific purpose to tag bays (sv, da fjord) as that are mostly covered by land but connected to the sea, thus nor a lake nor a lagoon.

In my editing the last two days I found loads of riverbanks only tagged with natural=water. Do you know why? Because it shows up blue on the map. I think I am going to suggest to CartoOSM that they stop rendering elements only tagged natural=water to create an impetus for editors to be more precise.

Right now their meaning according to the wiki is:

natural=water * can be tagged along amenity=fountain (= not a lake) * can be tagged along water= tags * can be added along other tags specifying wasteplants etc. * if it has no other tags it is unclear what it represents

landuse=basin * An area of land artificially graded to hold water. Note that this definition includes also structures typically without water. Usually these features are made for man made water courses e.g. storm water, water treatment.

landuse=reservoir * Man made body of stored water. May be covered or uncovered. Usually formed by a dam over a natural water course, water then backs up into a natural valley or depression. Equal to natural=water + water=reservoir

As an aside JOSM adds the tags from the approved proposal we are discussing. I’m fine with that but I guess you are not. E.g. if you choose reservoir it adds natural=water + water=reservoir.

I’m sorry but I disagree again. A quick search on the wiki brought this up: osm.wiki/Tag:attraction%3Dwater_slide which I think is a good tag for this thing. Basin is something completely different as you can see on the wiki.

I disagree with keeping the tagging scheme stale when it is clearly not detailed enough. As the database gets richer and richer and more and more detailed drone and orthography becomes available we will need to revise broken/cumbersome schemes.

I really like the water= tag because it is easy in an editor like JOSM to list the different values. That means I dont have to remember as many tags in total.

@Tomas It sounds like you have given up. The only discussion I found on tagging was from 2011 but I did not search very thoroughly. Maybe you disagree about the whole subtags discussion as well? I like when we can agree on something and move forward. Sometimes I disagree with stuff but often I am convinced by the arguments.

I have one more example of unfortunate tagging with natural=water (that makes it render on the map but is data quality wise quite useless): osm.org/way/76372599 All the “water” = waterslides in there are tagged natutal=water ONLY. Can we agree that this is not optimal? Can we agree that when I want the number of lakes in cyprus and search for natural=water and gets these in return something is wrong? I believe that both iD and JOSM until recently lets this pass without complaining. In JOSM we just added a validation that would have catched this.

I disagree. The tagging of swimming pool was changed to leisure=swimming_pool. See osm.wiki/Tag:landuse%3Dbasin

If you believe that introducing water= was a mistake I invite you to state it on the tagging mailing list and perhaps create a new proposal on the wiki to clean up the mess.

@Tomas I don’t share your concerns at all. This approved water scheme enables you to qualify what type of object/function the body of water is. I found many natural=water that are swimming pools and industrial reservoirs that are clearly mistagged. This means that currently if you try to estimate the number of naturally formed lakes in the world from our data you have a lot of problems with mistagged elements.

We can do better. A MapRoulette challenge for every natural=water without water= or waterway= would probably be a good idea. :)

@Tomas did you see this? osm.wiki/Proposed_features/Water_details Overwhelming majority for this way of tagging then it seems. Unfortunately landuse=reservoir have not been deprecated which is confusing I think.

Oh, I was not aware of that. What about lagoons and bays? How do we tag that using the old scheme?

I’m not convinced that the old scheme was better as it seems like a bad idea to use a main tag like natural=water to only mean lake.

I will discuss this on the tagging mailing list before proceeding with more edits. I lean towards deprecating landuse=reservoir in favour of water=reservoir and adding water= to all elements tagged natural=water.

@Thomas Hi, as I see it adding a tag specifying which function a body of water has cannot be a lowering of quality, quite the opposite actually. I started this quest because I wanted to answer the question: how many naturally formed lakes (bodies of water surrounded by land) are there in Sweden? This question is hard to answer if any kind of water is tagged natural=water only. Could you link to resources backing up your claim?

I also recommend taking a look at the filters and filter out what you dont want to get in the way (snapping). E.g. when mapping landuse hide the roads and vice versa.

@jorchr Jag testade hur långt jag skulle komma på en halvtimme manuellt och det räckte tyvärr inte långt :( Jag gav upp och skapade därefter osm.org/user/pangoSE/diary/391129

@ Tack för svar. Jag delar gärna upp den. Vi skulle behöva ett josm plugin till detta.

@jorchr osm.org/relation/1560792 är i mina ögon inte ett lyckad exempel på skogsMP eftersom att den innehar mera än 50 medlemmar och är mycket stor. Det är för övrigt flera sjöar som inte är markerad som inners än, tex Hundasjön.

När jag tittar på dina senaste ändringar ser jag också att du inte lämnar kommentarer. Skulle du vilja börja med det eller är det för bökigt i P2?

Jag reagerar också på att P2 inte berättar vilket bakgrundslager som du använt för dina ganska omfattande ändringar tex här: osm.org/changeset/76265237#map=10/57.9214/15.4633

Jag ser också att P2 inte har uppdaterats sen över ett år https://github.com/openstreetmap/potlatch2

Alt i alt så kan jag i dagsläget inte rekommendera P2. -> kör iD för enklare, snabba småfix, eller gröna nybörjare som inte lärt sig tagsnamn än och JOSM för resten.

@SomeoneElse Thanks for the heads up. I wrote it a little fast and actually have never tried P2 myself. What I have seen is others map with it and afterwards leave broken MPs. I just saw this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7lfCKJpdCA and this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJlqlchv4vU Does it validate MPs? @jorchr Tack för informationen, kul at P2 funkar för dig. Götaland ser bra ut på OSMI, bra jobbat!

No, for reasons stated above.

Could you add a way to disable the dialogs for power users? It would speed up the entry greatly and make it possible to enter the choice using Vimium only.