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51820940 almost 8 years ago

The "name=*" tag in general is to show what is written on the road, street or shop signs, whatever it is.

51820940 almost 8 years ago

- Village, town and city names: name:* in Belarusian only.
- Street signs: this is the tricky part. In Minsk or Brest, the situation is clear (official street signs are all in Belarusian). However, there are some towns or villages without any official street signs, just the name on the street (usually in Russian) on private houses (or buildings). In this case, except for Minsk and any city where official street signs are in Belarusian, bilingualism in name:* would be a good solution if we are not sure (without forgetting to fill name:be and name:ru). In order to be readable, we could write it like this: BY name - RUS name (ex.: вулiца Савецкач - улица Совецкая)
- Transportation-related infrastructure names: most of them are in Belarusian. Bus stops, metro stations, train stations should have the Belarusian name in name:*. If they are in Russian, then the name:* tag should be in Russian
- Monuments: they are always signed in Belarusian (ex.: Брэсцкая крэпасць), and so they should be on OSM. Unless we are talking about some communist monuments (you know, those "слава героям"). I think it makes no sense to change the name=* tag.
- Commercial names: leave as it is. Белоруснефть, Родны Кут, U Tadeusza, Кинотеатр Мир, etc.) whatever the language and the alphabet.
That was my proposition from the very beginning when I started the discussion a couple of months ago.

51820940 almost 8 years ago

Screenshots from what I see from my computer on Yandex:
- In English: https://plus.google.com/u/1/photos/116538206482963449572/album/6463292506880436433/6463292504796189858?authkey=CPHviqDkqcGDfw
- In Russian: https://plus.google.com/u/1/photos/116538206482963449572/album/6463292506880436433/6463292506893818850?authkey=CPHviqDkqcGDfw
As you can see, even Yandex writes those names in Belarusian as main ones. And they are Russian!

51820940 almost 8 years ago

As soon as I am in front of a computer I will post a screenshot of Yandex (I don't know how to post it over here).
Anyway my point is: OSM is not about politics or personal language preference, but about reflecting the reality and so far we were not doing that in Belarus. I drive there every two weeks, and no matter which language I use on my phone I always see the Russian name below. When I use Russian, I see only the Russian name and no other!. Imagine a tourist from Russia getting confused (that was a perfect example provided by another user) by entirely different names and not being able to see the Belarusian name on his app (Октябрская instead of Кастрычнiцкая, Берёзовая Роща instead of Бярозавы Гай, lots of places with the word "Большой" instead of "Вялiкi "), etc. I am not even mentioning tourists that don't read cyrillic nor speak Russian/Belarusian! Try it, because quite a couple of my ethnic Russian friends (no matter if they are from Lithuania, Latvia, Belarus, Ukraine or Russia) have complained to me personally about all the above each time they had to go to Belarus and used OSM and OSM-based apps. Otherwise I wouldn't highlight this issue and take from my personal time to make such an enormous work...

51820940 almost 8 years ago

P.S.: Please note even Russian maps Yandex use Belarusian names as the main ones.

51820940 almost 8 years ago

If I follow your logic, then I should change by default each country/region/village where the majority of the population speaks another language than the one on the roadsigns (for example, I should put Polish in Eastern Lithuania, Russian in Eastern Latvia, Hungarian in Southern Slovakia and to Arabic in some parts of France) and so on. Do you imagine the enormous confusion?
Please note the community has decided to change the rule due to numerous complaints regarding the enormous confusion that Russian names as main ones was bringing to OSM users and OSM-based app users (including Russian-speaking tourists!).
Anyway, the default OSM policy clearly states the names must appear *as they are on-spot* ("ground rule"). If you have ever visited Belarus, you may have noticed that all village, town, city, lake, river, monument names are in Belarusian. By reverting main names to Russian, you are favorizing confusion even among Russian-speaking tourists!
Nobody is deleting totally the Russian names, we are just making sure that Russian tourists see both the Russian and the Belarusian names in their apps, for instance. Just as in Crimea they are now in Russian, in Belarus they are in Belarusian.
Looking forward for your cooperation.

51820940 almost 8 years ago

Hello. May I know the reason why you are reverting names?

50951620 almost 8 years ago

Aaa. now I see it. Actually my aim was to merge the border point on the bridge so it is in phase both with the national LV/EST border, as well as with the river (Varžupite). However, that border point must be on the bridge.
I was also looking for the Estonian name of that river, but haven't found it whatsoever.

50951620 almost 8 years ago

I am unable to see the exact place.
Anyway, I don't remember merging a waterway and a waterway with a node. So it is most probably a mistake from myself. Could you please correct it?

50951620 almost 8 years ago

Sorry, I do not understand your question... Where exactly?

50582202 almost 8 years ago

I'm afraid this is not arbitrary info. It is useful info, otherwise I wouldn't waste my time to look for it and reflect it on OSM. Rules are there as an indication, and may sometimes be wrong Some of them must be changed.
You state the policy on names it clear. I'm afraid it isn't. There are a couple of contradictions that I highlighted in my profile.
Look what happens with Belarus, for instance. Some people here decided that all should be in Russian, and guess what? All locality and metro station names are in Belarusian, which only brings confusion among OSM users, even Russian-speaking just because a minority on OSM decided arbitrarily not to reflect the reality.
All this to say, not disrespecting your work, that before caring about such small details, we should care about drawing everything as it should be. Latvia is the perfect example of a total lack of prioritizing. Roads drawn totally randomly (sometimes 1km from their real path!!), village names forgotten or wrongly placed, unexisting names in Russian or in English. A total catastrophy! Somehow nobody started correcting it before myself. I even launched an appeal recently on OSM on that matter because I won't be able to take care about it alone (I work, etc.)
I am open for discussion with in PM on these matters.
Please accept my apologies if you don't agree with me
Kind regards

50582202 almost 8 years ago

One question: what will it change for OSM if those border control tagged names are not visible to regular OSM users anyway?

50582202 almost 8 years ago

Hi :)
Sure! This is for people using OSM-based GPS apps (ex.: maps.me) to know which lane is for regular cars (≤3.5t meaning “for vehicles with a weight up to 3,5 tons), and which one is for trucks (TIR, abbreviation of Transport International Routier, is understood by every truck driver using those border checkpoints). OSM policy states clearly we must tag with “border control” the exact place(s) where border control takes place, which I regularly correct (most people tag the border itself). However, nothing is stated about the names, so I usually add the name of the border checkpoint + additional info (ex.: car lanes, truck lanes, “nothing to declare” lanes, “local traffic only”, etc.). This allows people to have the info before they head to the border checkpoint, and sometimes before they make the wrong border checkpoint choice :)
Hope this helps.

50159972 about 8 years ago

You have deleted good data already a couple of times (useful border crossing info, names, and so on), and you thought nobody would discover it. Not only from me, but other users. Stop assuming you know everything better than everyone. Kareivių g. being widened, and such data is useful both for OSM and GPS apps users in order to avoid that zone. By deleting such data you obstruct all users. Moreover, being rude is not the way of communicating. You are the only user with whom I have ever had any issues. No other user has ever been rude to me. Stop that now.

50159972 about 8 years ago

Do NOT write in big letters (this shows aggressiveness) and do NOT delete my changes on Kareivių g. Thank you.

49301713 about 8 years ago

Thanks :)

49301713 about 8 years ago

Hello Nearo.
As a French guy, I can tell you it is true Maëstricht is not used by the current generation, but I stilll know elderly people who use it.
About reverting changes: I am abroad right now & I can hardly access any computer. Could you please revert those changes for me this time?
Thank you for your understanding.
Kind regards,
Jerry

49262552 about 8 years ago

Following your logic, Tomas, it means OSM is useless because you can't correct mistakes from previous users nor add forrest tracks for bikers, nor update road classification changes, etc. OSM's advantage is that if any change has been seen on spot, it can be made immediately. If some roads appear 300 meters from their real place, it can be corrected and that is exactly what I am doing, with the aim to help other OSM users.
Anyway, by reverting full changesets for one (discutable) mistake, it would mean you are not helping other OSM users, nor OSM-based GPS app users, but obstructing everyone and assuming you are perfect. Please bear in mind that if you make such decision to revert full changesets, this will go to moderation.
Regards,

49261280 about 8 years ago

First of all: I'm not your child, so please speak nicer to me. I am pretty confident I'm older than you are.
Second: if I touched it not knowing what it is, it means I didn't do it on purpose.
Third: you didn't answer my question: what is that "noexit" tag?

49261280 about 8 years ago

What is that "noexit" tag?