P.S.: in this case I hadn’t used GSV, but I wrote that because one specific user from LT kept deleting my changes and I was angry...

Hi Andy. I’ve already been acknowledged with this fact a couple of months ago, after what I stopped using GSV for OSM immediately; but thanks for your reminder. Kind regards. Jerry

The local agreement was perhaps good in a certain context back in 2009. But the context has changed.

Hi Andy.
I've already sent such pics around a week ago. Please ask your colleague Frederik Ramm. In case you need them again, I can send them once more :)
In short, asI had already told, toponyms are usually in Belarusian (cities, towns, villages, rivers, lakes...) while commercial names are mostly in Russian and translating them makes no sense IMHO. Sometimes in Belarusian, sometimes in English, French, Polish, etc.
If you'd need more details, don't you guys hesitate in asking me :) Kind regards,

@4004 Which is why I asked for people in Telegram "where are we going" because it is such a mess that it's hard for everyone to get what we should do.
@Mykhailo @Yaugenka - STOP!

@yaugenka: O.K. There is an enormous confusion here with people asking to change manually while people discuss about changing automatically, people asking to wait for the automatic change, and people who don't want any change. Nevertheless, that doesn't change the fact that no one gave you the authorization to revert those changes (unless, of course, if someone totally deleted the name:ru tag, with what we all agree)
@mOlind: O.K. This means we need to check *every single toponym* anyway because I noticed (although it is a minority) that sometimes the tag name:ru or the tag name:be is missing.
Is there any way to have a global view of those missing tags name:be and name:ru?

?

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?????????????????? Jauhenka deleted all the changes we had all made from the very beginning! As you said Georgij, multilingual changes, but even road changes!
I was Jauhenka was a reasonable person, but I'm afraid what one of the guys told me is right: he is just trying to gain time to revert all the changes. Are you conscious, Jauhenka, under such conditions you can get banned for vandalizing?

O.K.guys. As soon as you start, please provide the link

Then his account should be suspended. At least temporarily

@4004 We should explain to Pavel-kulik that the aim of the changes is not to delete the Russian names, but to put them at the right place...

Hello Pavel :)
Thanks for participating in our effort to make the map more realistic.
However, please bear in mind we agreed to:
step a) Copy "name:be" to "name"
step b) Leave the Russian name in "name:ru".
In this case, I'm afraid you removed totally the "name:ru" tag.
Could you please correct this and put the Russian name in "name:ru"?
Thank you in advance.
Kind regards,

My opinion is that the English tag in that standard would be O.K., but the int_name tag should be in Belarusian Łacinka.

Proofreading is always easier than reading ;) So it is a good solution to make it automatically and switch. Especially that people like Georgij or me are not proficient in some OSM matters yet (like that addr tag)

Given what mOlind just mentioned, I also vote for an automatic process.

@4004 Anyway, nobody is trying to Belarusize business names ;) And about monuments, I had included it for 2 reasons:
- they are always shown in Belarusian on roadsigns
- On those monuments you usually have some sign with the word "каштоўнасць" ("monument" if I'm not mistaken) with a short explanation.
However, Belarusicizing some typical communist monuments "слава героям" is not necessary IMO. Especially given the fact they are not indicated on roadsigns.
Now my essential question is: should we continue changing manually those toponyms? Or will that be an automatic process?

@Poliakoff Mykhailo - Your point is good. You mention the ў, it is usually automatically transliterated automatically into "y" instead of "ŭ" when you switch to another language than Russian. This is why it is extremely important not to forget to transliterate into Latin in the int_name tag ("Магілёў" will automatically appear as "Magiley" if we don't do that. So people must remember to check whethre the int_name tag is filled and appears as "Mahilioŭ"), The vast majority of locality names are already transliterated into Łacinka, but it is not the case of lakes, monuments and other infrastructure.
Your point on the Ukraine transition is good. Recently I've had a look into some roads in Ukraine and I noticed toponyms are in Ukrainian, but some monuments are left in Russian. I think it would look more or less the same on the Belarusian side.

@4004: the majority of us agreed on switching the name tag to Belarusian and to check whether the name:ru tag is filled. This is for toponyms, monuments, and administrative levels (when you travel into Belarus), you see clearly written "Мінская воблсасць" and not "Минская область", for instance.
We will not change commercial names nor the administration building names.
However, dear 4004, we the addr. tag is an issue on which we must discuss together and creating a task group on such technical matters is a good idea I believe.
P.S.: the Russian version of the convention mentioned above by Шурик leaves the door open for language switches: "В результате обсуждения пришли к решению, что названия в тегах name пишутся ТОЛЬКО на русском языке, поскольку так исторически сложилось, и русскоязычных источников данных, пользователей и участников проекта очевидно больше, чем белорусскоязычных. Если будет принято решение перейти на использование белорусского языка в качестве основного, содержимое тегов name будет скопировано в name:ru (при его отсутствии), а name:be --- в name автоматически."

Wow guys, this discussion is really active :D As I'm not getting the notifications on my email, I am always amazed when I enter this thread.
Let us be clear once again (sorry if I repeat what was written a couple of times):
a) As a couple of us pointed out, the agreement shown above violates the main rule. Thus, from the very beginning the initial agreement is null and void. Just as in law.
b) Moreover, the agreement (as it was pointed out by 2 users) violates the Belarusian law. Do we want OSM to get forbidden in Belarus? I don't because I use it while being there, and several apps do.
c) Our aim is to show the reality on-spot. Not to be a sort of Belarusian Jeanne d'Arc and "kick out Russian(s) out of Belarus". (like she said about "kicking out Englishmen from France") :D And as someone wrote before (I think it was Georgij or perhaps myself?), those who are afraid that Belarusization (in reality "Realisticallyzation :D") will make the Russian language die in Belarus have nothing to be afraid about:
1) Nobody wants to erase the Russian names totally. And we do all agree on that. The Russian toponyms will be shown anyway for those who use those OSM-based apps in Russian, but along with the original name appearing on-spot.
2) Belarus is the only former USSR country where the use of Russian has increased. That is a matter of fact. However, all toponyms are in Belarusian and neither Шурик82, neither Jaugenka, neither Georgij, neithe Vladimir, neither 4004, neither Ambush, neither Mykhailo, neither mOlind and neither I will change that, whatever is our perception on the Belarusian and Russian languages. The only one who can change that is Mr.Alexander Lukashenka, and I think it is the last thing he worries about despite his love for Russian language.

We need to rely on facts. That is why we are Openstreetmap: to highlight facts, make them visible to everyone and thus help people around the world.And that is our strength over our competitors like Google or Yandex.
Otherwise, taking our time (for which nobody pays us) to improve OSM is useless because we are doing only a half-good job, whether we are pro-change or anti-change.
Any issues will be resolved. From my professional history I know how transitions are difficult, but I also know that every issue has its own solution(s).

@4004: all transition periods have their own issues and there is no problem without any solution ;) Poliakoff Mykhailo seems to know a lot on a similar case: neighboring Ukraine. Anyway, on such technical details I prefer reading your propositions because I'm not as good as you guys yet. But some users (Ambush, etc.) have been on OSM for so many years that I'm confident they will find solutions to the potential issues mentioned above regarding the addr tags. If a name appears only in Russian on OSM, usually the Belarusian equivalent can be found on wikipedia, and can be checked with other sources. If the appropriate Belarusian name is not found for some locations even after verification, I would suggest to leave those names as they already appear.