OpenStreetMap logoa OpenStreetMap

Townlands.ie supports historic names

amapanda ᚛ᚐᚋᚐᚅᚇᚐ᚜ 🏳️‍⚧️ erabiltzaileak 17 Abendua 2016 datan argitaratua English hizkuntzan

Townlands.ie now displays the historic name of areas! Townlands.ie is a website which shows the Irish traditional boundaries in OpenStreetMap, like townlands, civil parishes, baronies and counties. It’s very useful for Irish genealogical research, and mainting Ireland’s heritage into the digital era.

An example of this is County Offaly, which was initially created as a county in 1556 as “King’s County”, and was known as that until Irish independence in 1922, when it was changed to County Offaly. Neighbouring Co. Laois was known as “Queen’s County”.

We use the date namespace suffix to support this. The current OSM relation for Co. Offaly shows how to add this data: name:1556--1922=King's County, name:1922--=County Offaly

Townlands.ie currently supports the following 3 forms. Other options may be added later.

  • name:--YEAR: Name before YEAR
  • name:YEAR--: Name from YEAR to the present
  • name:YEAR1--YEAR2: Name between the years YEAR1 and YEAR2

There is already support for adding the name Griffith’s Valuation (with name:griffithsvaluation tag), and the 1901 and 1911 census names (name:census1901 and name:census1911). However that is often used for transcription errors.

Please add more historic names to OSM in Ireland!

Email icon Bluesky Icon Facebook Icon LinkedIn Icon Mastodon Icon Telegram Icon X Icon

Eztabaida

RobJN erabiltzailearen iruzkina 18 Abendua 2016 01:08-eann

You seem to have inspired a post about the use of these tags: osm.org/user/BushmanK/diary/40093

An alternate proposal is made here: osm.wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Date_namespace#It_is_awful_from_the_point_of_view_of_querying_and_data_processing

BushmanK erabiltzailearen iruzkina 18 Abendua 2016 01:31-eann

@RobJN, it is not a proposal, it’s an illustration of how similar problem could be solved without disrespecting data usability.

But there still is a question: should any historical data be stored in the OSM database, keeping in mind the core principle of not mapping anything non-current.

d1g erabiltzailearen iruzkina 30 Urtarrila 2017 13:10-eann

Impressive, but now I prefer Wikidata for this task, e.g. “Ленинград”: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q656#P1448 and https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q656#P17

Code in python would be slightly longer than 30L, but I appreciate how data is layouted in WD so that you don’t need to unparse anything.

amapanda ᚛ᚐᚋᚐᚅᚇᚐ᚜ 🏳️‍⚧️ erabiltzailearen iruzkina 31 Urtarrila 2017 09:14-eann

Impressive, but now I prefer Wikidata for this task, e.g. “Ленинград”: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q656#P1448 and https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q656#P17

Cool. I don’t really know anything about wikidata or how to use it though, so I kept it all in OpenStreetMap

d1g erabiltzailearen iruzkina 31 Urtarrila 2017 09:32-eann

Simplest way is to fetch results using

Database downloads and toolkits can be found here:

so I kept it all in OpenStreetMap

It is impossible to have qualifiers separate from properties in OSM: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Help:Qualifiers without parsing; furthermore, almost everything is multilingual.

amapanda ᚛ᚐᚋᚐᚅᚇᚐ᚜ 🏳️‍⚧️ erabiltzailearen iruzkina 31 Urtarrila 2017 09:42-eann

That all look really complicated, and looks like I’d have to learn how Wikidata works. It’s something I’d like to learn, but I don’t have the time right now. I’d also have to query a US server, which has obviously bad privacy implications.

It’s not impossible to have it in OSM, because I’ve already put it in OSM. name:1556--1922=King's County is pretty readable. Sure it might not be as full featured as other systems, but it works, it’s readable, it’s easy to enter, and it’s deployed now. “Perfect is the enemy of done” and all that. 😄

d1g erabiltzailearen iruzkina 31 Urtarrila 2017 10:16-eann

Thing that I can access data using SPARQL/CSV query without a line of code other than SPARQL. Not only it is perfect, it takes 4 minutes to do so and data will be up-to-date.

If you have interest, materials can be found here: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:SPARQL_query_service/Wikidata_Query_Help

amapanda ᚛ᚐᚋᚐᚅᚇᚐ᚜ 🏳️‍⚧️ erabiltzailearen iruzkina 31 Urtarrila 2017 10:27-eann

Thing that I can access data using SPARQL/CSV query without a line of code other than SPARQL. Not only it is perfect, it takes 4 minutes to do so and data will be up-to-date.

I have 65,000 objects. Can I make that many queries to Wikidata? At 4 minutes a pop, it’ll take 6 months to populate my database. I’m currently updating townlands.ie every day, and want to keep that.

(that query link takes less than 4 minutes for me, probably caching)

amapanda ᚛ᚐᚋᚐᚅᚇᚐ᚜ 🏳️‍⚧️ erabiltzailearen iruzkina 31 Urtarrila 2017 10:42-eann

I’m sure Wikidata is great. And it’s something I’d like to know more about. But I don’t have the time now. And what I have works now, so I don’t want to go writing everything to rely on an external service which has a more full featured and complicated data model, when it’s not going to provide any benefit.

d1g erabiltzailearen iruzkina 31 Urtarrila 2017 11:11-eann

Can I make that many queries to Wikidata?

When you enter data for 60K+ items you can query “all cities in country with property P1448”. It should work, you can limit results if needed.

But I don’t have the time now

when it’s not going to provide any benefit

It won’t harm you, you don’t need to change anything yet. It can be that you will never switch to Wikidata API or WDQS, but you can contribute. You can donate data and wait when somebody will pick it up:

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Data_donation#Why_add_data_to_Wikidata

amapanda ᚛ᚐᚋᚐᚅᚇᚐ᚜ 🏳️‍⚧️ erabiltzailearen iruzkina 31 Urtarrila 2017 12:26-eann

You can donate data and wait when somebody will pick it up:

Wikidata is CC0 “Public domain” licenced. This data is OSM derived, so you can’t import it into Wikidata. I also won’t donate my data to a non-share-alike, corporate friendly licence like CC0.

Hasi saioa iruzkin bat uzteko