Townlands.ie supports historic names
Posted by amapanda ᚛ᚐᚋᚐᚅᚇᚐ᚜ 🏳️⚧️ on 17 December 2016 in English.Townlands.ie now displays the historic name of areas! Townlands.ie is a website which shows the Irish traditional boundaries in OpenStreetMap, like townlands, civil parishes, baronies and counties. It’s very useful for Irish genealogical research, and mainting Ireland’s heritage into the digital era.
An example of this is County Offaly, which was initially created as a county in 1556 as “King’s County”, and was known as that until Irish independence in 1922, when it was changed to County Offaly. Neighbouring Co. Laois was known as “Queen’s County”.
We use the date namespace suffix to support this. The current OSM relation for Co. Offaly shows how to add this data: name:1556--1922=King's County
, name:1922--=County Offaly
Townlands.ie currently supports the following 3 forms. Other options may be added later.
name:--YEAR
: Name beforeYEAR
name:YEAR--
: Name fromYEAR
to the presentname:YEAR1--YEAR2
: Name between the yearsYEAR1
andYEAR2
There is already support for adding the name Griffith’s Valuation (with name:griffithsvaluation
tag), and the 1901 and 1911 census names (name:census1901
and name:census1911
). However that is often used for transcription errors.
Please add more historic names to OSM in Ireland!
شننه
په 18 December 2016 په 01:08 باندې د RobJN تبصره
You seem to have inspired a post about the use of these tags: osm.org/user/BushmanK/diary/40093
An alternate proposal is made here: osm.wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Date_namespace#It_is_awful_from_the_point_of_view_of_querying_and_data_processing
په 18 December 2016 په 01:31 باندې د BushmanK تبصره
@RobJN, it is not a proposal, it’s an illustration of how similar problem could be solved without disrespecting data usability.
But there still is a question: should any historical data be stored in the OSM database, keeping in mind the core principle of not mapping anything non-current.
په 30 January 2017 په 13:10 باندې د d1g تبصره
Impressive, but now I prefer Wikidata for this task, e.g. “Ленинград”: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q656#P1448 and https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q656#P17
Code in python would be slightly longer than 30L, but I appreciate how data is layouted in WD so that you don’t need to unparse anything.
په 31 January 2017 په 09:14 باندې د amapanda ᚛ᚐᚋᚐᚅᚇᚐ᚜ 🏳️⚧️ تبصره
Cool. I don’t really know anything about wikidata or how to use it though, so I kept it all in OpenStreetMap
په 31 January 2017 په 09:32 باندې د d1g تبصره
Simplest way is to fetch results using
Database downloads and toolkits can be found here:
It is impossible to have qualifiers separate from properties in OSM: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Help:Qualifiers without parsing; furthermore, almost everything is multilingual.
په 31 January 2017 په 09:42 باندې د amapanda ᚛ᚐᚋᚐᚅᚇᚐ᚜ 🏳️⚧️ تبصره
That all look really complicated, and looks like I’d have to learn how Wikidata works. It’s something I’d like to learn, but I don’t have the time right now. I’d also have to query a US server, which has obviously bad privacy implications.
It’s not impossible to have it in OSM, because I’ve already put it in OSM.
name:1556--1922=King's County
is pretty readable. Sure it might not be as full featured as other systems, but it works, it’s readable, it’s easy to enter, and it’s deployed now. “Perfect is the enemy of done” and all that. 😄په 31 January 2017 په 10:16 باندې د d1g تبصره
Thing that I can access data using SPARQL/CSV query without a line of code other than SPARQL. Not only it is perfect, it takes 4 minutes to do so and data will be up-to-date.
If you have interest, materials can be found here: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:SPARQL_query_service/Wikidata_Query_Help
په 31 January 2017 په 10:27 باندې د amapanda ᚛ᚐᚋᚐᚅᚇᚐ᚜ 🏳️⚧️ تبصره
I have 65,000 objects. Can I make that many queries to Wikidata? At 4 minutes a pop, it’ll take 6 months to populate my database. I’m currently updating townlands.ie every day, and want to keep that.
(that query link takes less than 4 minutes for me, probably caching)
په 31 January 2017 په 10:42 باندې د amapanda ᚛ᚐᚋᚐᚅᚇᚐ᚜ 🏳️⚧️ تبصره
I’m sure Wikidata is great. And it’s something I’d like to know more about. But I don’t have the time now. And what I have works now, so I don’t want to go writing everything to rely on an external service which has a more full featured and complicated data model, when it’s not going to provide any benefit.
په 31 January 2017 په 11:11 باندې د d1g تبصره
When you enter data for 60K+ items you can query “all cities in country with property P1448”. It should work, you can limit results if needed.
It won’t harm you, you don’t need to change anything yet. It can be that you will never switch to Wikidata API or WDQS, but you can contribute. You can donate data and wait when somebody will pick it up:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Data_donation#Why_add_data_to_Wikidata
په 31 January 2017 په 12:26 باندې د amapanda ᚛ᚐᚋᚐᚅᚇᚐ᚜ 🏳️⚧️ تبصره
Wikidata is CC0 “Public domain” licenced. This data is OSM derived, so you can’t import it into Wikidata. I also won’t donate my data to a non-share-alike, corporate friendly licence like CC0.